10 round guns.

This is a discussion on 10 round guns. within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Just to get this part out of the way, this will be my first gun. I have never shot a gun before, but I plan ...

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Thread: 10 round guns.

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    New Member Array McBallarms's Avatar
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    10 round guns.

    Just to get this part out of the way, this will be my first gun. I have never shot a gun before, but I plan on (obviously) starting soon. Now I am looking for a handgun, and I have all ready done some research on what I want to get. First of all, while I currently live in AZ, I may be going to CA soon. So it needs to be a 10 round or less firearm. Now I know that I can buy plenty of guns that normal are standard with more than 10 rounds (P226, CZ75, G19, etc) that are cleared for CA use, but I really don't want to do that. I'd much prefer to have a gun that is designed to hold 10 rounds standard, instead of a handicapped 15 rounder. Next, I'd like a 9mm. I know 45's like 1911's, P220's, P227's, etc are great for CA since they all hold 10 rounds or less standard (the p227 even meets my prior requirement, and I've been giving it serious thought), but the 45 takes a lot more training to use properly, and that training costs more than a 9mm. Honestly I want a weapon that is/has been used by military or LE, widely, instead of a Kel-tec for example. I'd also like a concealable, yet easy to control, grip. That's one thing that drives me away from a glock 26, or other similar firearms, since A: I don't like how thick it is, and B: it's a bit short for my comfort. I know it's currently difficult to obtain a CCW in CA right now, but let's just ignore since (it's seems like it might get a lot more relaxed soon anyway). So I am probably looking for a single stacked 10 round 9mm, which is the capacity it's designed for, from a trusted manufacturer, that isn't too hard to conceal. You guys can deviate from that but those are my current shopping points. Also, I lean towards appendix carry if that makes any difference.

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    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    Ruger SR9c 10 round mag, on CA safe list because it has the mag disconnect etc they require. Easy to conceal and has to base plates for the mag. One flat and one with finger extension so can get a full grip but doesnt hurt its conceal-ability.

    Wife has one. Loves it. Accurate thin and reliable with a great trigger. Her EDC.
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    VIP Member Array blitzburgh's Avatar
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    but the 45 takes a lot more training to use properly, and that training costs more than a 9mm.
    This is the first time I've ever heard that. .45 didn't take me any more or less training than 9mm or any other caliber. I understand recoil is subjective, but I find .45 to be a very manageable caliber with it's "soft push" flavor of recoil. You are right about 9mm being cheaper though. If you like 1911's, you could always get one chambered in .9mm.
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    New Member Array McBallarms's Avatar
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    I'm not doubting it's not too hard to master, but I'd rather not pick up a 45 pistol as the first gun I shoot, to avoid imprinting bad habits like flinching or w/e. And even if you don't find you have to practice a bit more to become proficient with one, it's just plain more expensive so you train less (or spend a lot to train more).

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    VIP Member Array blitzburgh's Avatar
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    Bersa Thunder 9, SCCY CPX-2, S&W MP9c, Shield, SR9C
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    New Member Array McBallarms's Avatar
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    I forgot to mention that I like DA/SA, for some reason I like hammer-fired more than striker. Doesn't mean I wouldn't get a striker-fired pistol, but I just like hammer-fired more for some reason. I'll also throw in that I am a fairly tall guy, between 6.1 to 6.3, if that makes any difference.

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBallarms View Post
    I may be going to CA soon. So it needs to be a 10 round or less firearm. Now I know that I can buy plenty of guns that normal are standard with more than 10 rounds (P226, CZ75, G19, etc) that are cleared for CA use, but I really don't want to do that. I'd much prefer to have a gun that is designed to hold 10 rounds standard, instead of a handicapped 15 rounder.
    You might consider the alternative, since you might well not permanently live in a "handicapped" state. In which case, you might well find value in having purchased sidearms that have every potential to be standard capacity once you simply acquire proper magazines for it, instead of the handicapped ones you initially got. That would be my recommendation, presuming of course that such "standard" sidearms with "hobbled" mags are on the permissions list for Calif.

    I know it's currently difficult to obtain a CCW in CA right now, but let's just ignore since (it's seems like it might get a lot more relaxed soon anyway).
    Counties matter, as it's up to the sheriff to either dawdle or dither or whatever else he/she is going to do. Pick a typically-red county and you've got a high likelihood of sailing through (in months, though, not weeks ... it's still Calif.).


    So I am probably looking for a single stacked 10 round 9mm, which is the capacity it's designed for, from a trusted manufacturer, that isn't too hard to conceal.
    You don't like "fat" circumference sidearms. You'd prefer 10rds, but you absolutely want a "standard" capacity sidearm as it was designed You absolutely need one that's easy to conceal, in a single-stack 9mm.

    Keep in mind: 10rds of single-stack is one hard-to-conceal 9mm sidearm. Pretty much a given, given how long the grip is going to be. Frankly, I can't think of any 10rd 9mm single-stack, off-hand; they're almost all double-stack for this reason.

    Kahr K9, P9 or CW9 9mm -- single-stack, though it's not 10rd.
    Bersa BPCC9 9mm -- single-stack, though it's not 10rd.
    Remington's new R51 9mm -- single-stack, though it's also not 10rd.
    Bersa Thunder UC Pro 9mm (or .40 or .45) -- 10rd, though in 9mm it'll handle 13rd mags. Feels slimmer than it is.
    H&K P30 9mm -- feels slimmer than it is.

    If you'd consider "fatties" (in terms of grip circumference roughly similar to the Glock 26): CZ 2075 RAMI 9mm, H&K P2000 SK 9mm. Though, IMO, I think the CZ 2075 RAMI is somewhat easier to hold than either the G26 or P2000SK (and I have smaller hands and tend to hate the fat 'plastic' grips so popular these days).


    Handgun Database Search @ Genitron.com might give you further ideas about models to consider.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; March 16th, 2014 at 07:24 AM. Reason: edit error in mfr name
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    New Member Array McBallarms's Avatar
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    I think one of my problems here is that I don't understand what exactly makes a gun concealable. From what I've heard the length of the barrel (except perhaps with appendix carry) doesn't really matter. Just the length and circumference of the grip, though I've always thought that the width is more of a problem than length? I know a lot of people carry 1911's without too much of a problem (usually the only complaint, that I hear, is the weight) since they're thin.

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    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBallarms View Post
    I forgot to mention that I like DA/SA, for some reason I like hammer-fired more than striker. Doesn't mean I wouldn't get a striker-fired pistol, but I just like hammer-fired more for some reason. I'll also throw in that I am a fairly tall guy, between 6.1 to 6.3, if that makes any difference.
    I call that 6'2"...

    Tha CZ 2075 Rami sounds like what you are looking for other than the single stack part. I'd give it a look at your LGS.

    Sig P239 is everything you want except not 10 rounds.
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    New Member Array McBallarms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad426 View Post
    I call that 6'2"...
    should have said from 6'1 to 6'3, I don't really measure myself often but im in that range

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    Cool

    McBall here is something you may well be interested in checking out. Now I just heard of this handgun yesterday and haven't done any research on it but this is what I've got.

    Rossi 357Magnum 9 shot revolver with 3 inch barrel. When I was younger and in my 40s I carried 357s w/4" barrels in shoulder holsters. I liked them and 20 or so years ago that's primarily what LE carried. But for the years I carried 357s they were all standard with 6R not 9R that's why I thought you might be interested. Plus the 357Magnum round is a strong hard hitting round. Training can be done with 38Special ammo which was less expensive back in more normal times. I haven't bought 357/38Special ammo in 20 years so I have no idea what it goes for. All the same a 357 with 9 rounds sounds doable for your needs given you maybe heading for CA.

    Good Luck Bubba.
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    Distinguished Member Array Tundra5.7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    You might consider the alternative, since you might well not permanently live in a "handicapped" state. In which case, you might well find value in having purchased sidearms that have every potential to be standard capacity once you simply acquire proper magazines for it, instead of the handicapped ones you initially got. That would be my recommendation, presuming of course that such "standard" sidearms with "hobbled" mags are on the permissions list for Calif.



    Counties matter, as it's up to the sheriff to either dawdle or dither or whatever else he/she is going to do. Pick a typically-red county and you've got a high likelihood of sailing through (in months, though, not weeks ... it's still Calif.).




    You don't like "fat" circumference sidearms. You'd prefer 10rds, but you absolutely want a "standard" capacity sidearm as it was designed You absolutely need one that's easy to conceal, in a single-stack 9mm.

    Keep in mind: 10rds of single-stack is one hard-to-conceal 9mm sidearm. Pretty much a given, given how long the grip is going to be. Frankly, I can't think of any 10rd 9mm single-stack, off-hand; they're almost all double-stack for this reason.

    Kahr K9, P9 or CW9 9mm -- single-stack, though it's not 10rd.
    Bersa BPCC9 9mm -- single-stack, though it's not 10rd.
    Ruger's new R51 9mm -- single-stack, though it's also not 10rd.
    Bersa Thunder UC Pro 9mm (or .40 or .45) -- 10rd, though in 9mm it'll handle 13rd mags. Feels slimmer than it is.
    H&K P30 9mm -- feels slimmer than it is.

    If you'd consider "fatties" (in terms of grip circumference roughly similar to the Glock 26): CZ 2075 RAMI 9mm, H&K P2000 SK 9mm. Though, IMO, I think the CZ 2075 RAMI is somewhat easier to hold than either the G26 or P2000SK (and I have smaller hands and tend to hate the fat 'plastic' grips so popular these days).


    Handgun Database Search @ Genitron.com might give you further ideas about models to consider.
    Should be Remington R51 not Ruger.
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    Member Array wheelyfun101's Avatar
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    Welcome to the world of firearms.
    Whenever the opportunity presents itself, get as much training as you can.

    Have you considered a revolver? Great way to start off as a handgun "newbie" and get proficient working with DA trigger.
    If you like the DA/SA semi, with 10 rounds or under.....consider the Sig P239 in 9mm
    Expensive, but why not start with one of the best!


    Or....do you have any ranges nearby, that rent guns?
    I used to hate Glock pistols.....while in the gun shop, they felt blocky and thick and...plastic!
    That all changed once I got to shooting them!

    Whatever your choice, be prepared to spend more money on ammo, holsters, belts, cleaning supplies, grips, a "better" gun, a "lighter" gun, a "tactical" gun...........
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    welcome, I believe you will figure it out over time, end up with a few different carry guns and a drawer full of holsters like most of us
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBallarms View Post
    I think one of my problems here is that I don't understand what exactly makes a gun concealable. From what I've heard the length of the barrel (except perhaps with appendix carry) doesn't really matter. Just the length and circumference of the grip, though I've always thought that the width is more of a problem than length? I know a lot of people carry 1911's without too much of a problem (usually the only complaint, that I hear, is the weight) since they're thin.
    A lot will depend on your body shape at the spot where you intend to carry, as well. The exact same rig on two different people very possibly will fit well on person #1 but badly on person #2, depending on the curves/hollows each person has. Just the way it is. (And, IMO, this is probably the main reason many of us have a collection of holsters in a drawer and end up going through a few sidearms in trial-and-error.)

    For me, overall thickness and the height of the frame are the two best indicators of difficulty in concealing. Barrel length doesn't seem to matter nearly as much (ie, with a comparatively thin 1911, even in the Gov't size). The little pinkie finger mag floor plates don't seem to matter. And, on me at least, short of carrying SOB, I can't completely avoid printing through any covering garment at least to some degree. Body shape is what it is, on me. And so, I need to pay particularly good attention to quality garments of the right cut, weight, pattern/color/texture and really avoid motions that will expose the shape. On some folks that have a flat-as-a-board spot along the waistline to conceal a gun in, these problems aren't nearly so pronounced.

    And so ... if 6'2" means you've got a flat-as-a-board spot and decent covering garments, great! If instead it means your spare tire and roundness dictates an utter lack of ability to snug the butt-end of a sidearm into the body, then likely you'll print a bit no matter what garments/holsters you try. Most are somewhere in the middle.
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    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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