Want to buy a new 1911 question.

Want to buy a new 1911 question.

This is a discussion on Want to buy a new 1911 question. within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'm interested in buying a new 1911 type pistol but what I am considering is a Les Bear. I would like to know if all ...

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    Member Array KMKCOLT's Avatar
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    Want to buy a new 1911 question.

    I'm interested in buying a new 1911 type pistol but what I am considering is a Les Bear. I would like to know if all the hype on these guns are really worth the price tag and also how does it compare with other 1911 of it's caliber such as Wilson or Night Hawk? Am I really going to notice the difference? how is the durability will it eventually loosen up to be like every other 1911 on the market. If so after how many rounds will it do that. I would like to hear from someone who has pumped out some rounds out of one of these. All I hear from people is how great the gun is well I would like to bash the myth of the fire breathing dragon and actually see some results from someone who uses one of these and uses it well beyond just a week end shoot at the local club. Any help is appreciated and Thanks in advance.
    OD* and bmcgilvray like this.
    In Africa the saying goes, an Elephant can kill you, a Leopard can kill you, and a Black Mamba cab kill you. But only with the Mamba is death sure. Hence Its handle, "death Incarnate." Kill Bill vol 2(Tarantino,2004)

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    I don't know much about them except they are supposed to be outstanding pistols. Deadguy and OD may know more. I can say a Les Baer, like a Wilson, holds its value .
    Aceoky, OD*, deadguy and 1 others like this.
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    I think worth, hype and value will be different for each individual person. Any items, 1911 or a painting for that matter, are only worth what you will pay for them. Everything else is a non-player. There isnt a 1911 made that is "worth" over $1500 to me. I know I wont pay more than that for a 1911. There are many other folks that will pay the price for a Les Baer. It is worth it to them. Honestly, as far as results go, I sent .45 cal slugs downrange with my $400 Rock Island. That said, Les Baer's are beautiful handguns and will serve you well. So does my Dan Wesson....
    The 1911 is an antiquated weapons system but then again, so am I.
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    I would love to see some real life target comparisons of the high end 1911's.
    I'm sure they are worth every penny to those who own them, but do they actually "work" better? Do they make you a better shooter because of their advertised accuracy?

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    Member Array KMKCOLT's Avatar
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    I know that the only manufacturer that guarantees you a 1.5" group at 50 yards is Les Bear and that is no BS. For a company to make such claims has to have a solid foundation or else they wouldn't be in business long.
    In Africa the saying goes, an Elephant can kill you, a Leopard can kill you, and a Black Mamba cab kill you. But only with the Mamba is death sure. Hence Its handle, "death Incarnate." Kill Bill vol 2(Tarantino,2004)

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    The law of diminishing returns is in full effect. People will pay whatever something costs when it's "The Best". As you move towards the highest of the high end you get less for your money, but it's still arguably better. You're also paying for the name of a legend on your pistol. The same thing from "Fred Lion" isn't worth as much by a long shot. If you collect and resale is one of your consideration there is no question that the Les Baer is going to appreciate faster.

    You can only make a Government so good out of steel. Maybe if you start using Adamantium or some super metal that will never wear out you could justify it.

    The Colt Python is, again arguably (I'm not arguing it here), no better than the S&W 19, but they had artisans spending hours and hours per pistol hand polishing all the surfaces for that glossy, melty look when they blued them. The S&W was more robust, with a trigger that stacks less, but they could produce them more quickly. They're at a lower level of fit and finish, which in today's utilitarian age of firearms a smaller percentage of people care about. The Colt demanded a much higher MSRP, and people paid it, and they've appreciated way faster because of it.

    As a useful investment I say go for it no question. As far as "hype"? Yea, there's hype, but you won't loose any money on it, and if you hang on to it for a while you'll make money. You simply cannot say that with a RIA, which will probably not be worth more than you paid for it in your lifetime.

    I have a Les Baer modified Combat Commander from his Jewelry Store days. It's a Colt, and before he started marking his own brand, but it's a precision shooter. Because it doesn't say Les Baer on it it's never going to be more than a book value colt even with the receipts for the work he did on it.

    Worth it for some, and not for others, but ultimately the market says it's worth it if you look at it the way the market does.
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    I don't own one but have handled and shot one. One of my shooting buddies has one. He frequently brings it to our Wed shoots. Its TIGHT and well made; for me it doesn't seem to be signifigantly more accurate than the DW's or a old Colt bullseye gun one friend has. The workmanship is flawless as is the finish. But for that type of money I'd go with Guncrafter or Nighthawk. Since I don't have the money, I'll continue to enjoy my RIA's. Perhaps I just cant shoot well enough to wring out it's true accuracy. The 1911 was designed as a COMBAT sidearm; it has inherent play in it's action for a reason. Super tight guns don't function well in dirt, dust, mud, and when not properly cared for. Good luck on finding your Holy Grail 1911.
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    Actually you might want to get a hold of JD. I know he had a Night Hawk, and I believe he has also had Les Bear and Wilson. If he doesn't see this thread you can always PM him.
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    All of these custom gun makers of today started out by customizing guns from existing companies such as you mentioned above Jaeger. Frankly, I would rather have your custom Colt. Wilson and les Bear all did that with colts or what have you. They started to make their own at later day using better fit and CNC machining for that purpose or just to bank all the money instead of loosing the initial cost of a pistol to a brand other than their own. But I have to tell you I have a new mfg. Colt Combat Commander XST which is very tight and the trigger is sweet with great performance. In my opinion Colt has come a long way to produce a better 1911 line and some may say it is a bit late but it is out there now. I am trying to get info to consider if it would be worth for me to buy a Les Bear rather than one already out there for less. I guess I want to know of the durability of the gun. Is it going to loosen up after 1000 rounds so that it wouldn't make a difference if I just buy another Colt or another brand. Since you have a custom Colt Jaeger and assuming you have had your gun digest many a round, has it loosened up to a point that you have noticed it. Does it feel like a regular out of the box 1911 or is it still the tight custom gun you had all the work done to.
    gatorbait51 and OD* like this.
    In Africa the saying goes, an Elephant can kill you, a Leopard can kill you, and a Black Mamba cab kill you. But only with the Mamba is death sure. Hence Its handle, "death Incarnate." Kill Bill vol 2(Tarantino,2004)

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    Quote Originally Posted by KMKCOLT View Post
    I'm interested in buying a new 1911 type pistol but what I am considering is a Les Bear. I would like to know if all the hype on these guns are really worth the price tag and also how does it compare with other 1911 of it's caliber such as Wilson or Night Hawk? Am I really going to notice the difference? how is the durability will it eventually loosen up to be like every other 1911 on the market. If so after how many rounds will it do that. I would like to hear from someone who has pumped out some rounds out of one of these. All I hear from people is how great the gun is well I would like to bash the myth of the fire breathing dragon and actually see some results from someone who uses one of these and uses it well beyond just a week end shoot at the local club. Any help is appreciated and Thanks in advance.
    Having own MANY brands of 1911s over the past 37 years (including Ed Brown and Wilson Combat), and having owned/owning 4 Baers, they are worth every penny. Yes, you will notice the difference as soon as you handle one, IMHO, Baer's are the best value in the semi-custom market. One suggestion, call John Koppel at https://cj1911heaven.com/, before you buy, he is literately hundreds under MSRP.

    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

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    OD*
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaeger View Post
    I have a Les Baer modified Combat Commander from his Jewelry Store days.
    Les Baer was/is a machinist, Bill Wilson was the watch maker.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow.
    End the cycle of hatred, don’t give them a tomorrow."

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    Thanks OD*, and thank you to all the members for their thoughts. I do shoot Competition just to put that out there and that is why I'm considering this pistol. I am also inquiring for the accuracy reason as well. I'm not saying I'm going to break Olympic record but I would like to get all the edge I can to be able to say I gave it the best I got. I shoot NRA matches in a 22LR league and now getting back into the 45acp league.
    gatorbait51 and OD* like this.
    In Africa the saying goes, an Elephant can kill you, a Leopard can kill you, and a Black Mamba cab kill you. But only with the Mamba is death sure. Hence Its handle, "death Incarnate." Kill Bill vol 2(Tarantino,2004)

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    OD*
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    Quote Originally Posted by KMKCOLT View Post
    Thanks OD*, and thank you to all the members for their thoughts. I do shoot Competition just to put that out there and that is why I'm considering this pistol. I am also inquiring for the accuracy reason as well. I'm not saying I'm going to break Olympic record but I would like to get all the edge I can to be able to say I gave it the best I got. I shoot NRA matches in a 22LR league and now getting back into the 45acp league.
    One thing I can tell you first hand, Les doesn't recommend his pistols with the 1 1/2" guarantee for carry, before shooting many, many rounds through them. 3 of my 4 Baers, I would have to jab the muzzle into my palm to rack the slide when new, they are that tight, but none of them ever malfunction in live fire. As far reliability goes when dirty, Les recommends firing 500 rounds without cleaning the pistol, just adding oil, not as a break-in, but to smooth-out the pistol (and they never skipped a beat). The oil combined with the burnt and unburnt residue creates a very fine lapping compound, and it does work superbly.
    KMKCOLT, msgt/ret, Aceoky and 4 others like this.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

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    I used lapping compound on my Colt CC. On the rails to smooth out the machine marks and wear in the slide to frame fit by firing 200 rounds through it with out cleaning and after the rounds a through cleaning by complete disassemble. It is like running on ball-bearings. Smooth and shoots fantastic. It doesn't have adjustable sights but its right on for a combat pistol. I do put it in a holster once in a while just for a change but I don't like to drift off from my H&K P7.
    OD*, msgt/ret, Aceoky and 1 others like this.
    In Africa the saying goes, an Elephant can kill you, a Leopard can kill you, and a Black Mamba cab kill you. But only with the Mamba is death sure. Hence Its handle, "death Incarnate." Kill Bill vol 2(Tarantino,2004)

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    I have nothing against high end 1911's.... But I have shot my Sr1911 and custom Springfield next to a nighthawk... I and I shot t he same groups. Does this mean the nighthawk ducked.... Nope. It means I can't utilise the increased accuracy potential of the nighthawk because of my own skills. I am a good shot, but I can't run the nighthawk to its full potential either. That said, the night hawk was an incredible gun to shoot. If you want a let beer, I say go for it.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
    OD*, Gabill, gatorbait51 and 1 others like this.
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