This is a discussion on Natural frequency? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Do you feel your gun has a natural frequency with rapid fire?
Obviously gun weight and caliber will be major influences but I have noticed ...
February 12th, 2007 12:34 AM
Do you feel your gun has a natural frequency with rapid fire?
Obviously gun weight and caliber will be major influences but I have noticed over years, as a generalization, that each gun has a definite ''ideal'' rate of fire. Even revo's too. Exceed that and maybe you lose the best results.
I must admit watching experts with .45acp in particular, it is surprising how fast they can be but - am aware that rapid with my 220 is definitely better slowed a shade, compared to 9mm +P thru my 226, which is definitely faster.
We are talking small increments of a second of course but sometimes, instance my SP-101 when it was EDC - if I tried to double tap faster than what seemed its natural frequency - second shot accuracy suffered.
Good grip and technique are vital always but, like it or not the gun will move under recoil - to greater or lesser degree. Thus gun recovery between shots will have a finite ''signature''.
Am I alone in this observation?
Chris - P95
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February 12th, 2007 12:39 AM
My guns do have what feels right from rapid fire and control perspective. Each is different and depends on the guns weight, trigger and ammo.
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February 12th, 2007 12:43 AM
February 12th, 2007 12:45 AM
I'm going to agree with you. I think it not only has to do with MNBurl's comments, but also its natural point of aim; as in how fast can you get the sights back on the target. After putting several hundred rounds through the gun, you get a feel for it and it starts to develop its own pattern and frequency.
You are right on, Chris.
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February 12th, 2007 01:00 AM
Every gun does, IMO, having to do with the balance, weight, degree of recoil and muzzle rise.
Originally Posted by P95Carry
Data points: My Browning BDM has a fairly long barrel as compared to the overall length/size. Most of the weight is out there, so it handles rapid-fire strings fairly well. My CZ P01 on the other hand has much more of its weight spread through the frame near the chamber, so it (understandably) flops around a bit more during strings fired just as quickly. It's sweet spot is about 30-40% slower, when firing rapidly. The KelTec P3AT, interestingly, comes back onto target very quickly, hence I'm able to rattle off quick strings of 3-4 rounds much faster than the other pistols. I'm sure this has to do with its overall weight. Of course, the kick/rise is much worse than the others. They're all quite different, yes.
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February 12th, 2007 01:07 AM
P95 , I agree. I think most of us just tend to unconsciously set the rhythm of rapid fire without realizing it.
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February 12th, 2007 01:24 AM
Yes, I have noticed this too. I wonder though if its the gun or the shooter. Like Rocky, I think its a mental thing. Shooting is a mental game more than anything else.
Try this... before you go to the range next time, think about an unusual shooting pattern. I.E. think about shooting 4 rapid shots on one target before moving onto the next. You will find that you alway want to shoot those 4 shots even if you force yourself to move to a five shot pattern or down to a three.
It works that way for me anyway...
February 12th, 2007 07:15 AM
This is a good post. It was something a friend and I were talking about recently. Certain guns shoot more faster-more better for certain people. Anybody have a better term for it? That doesn't sound right.
February 12th, 2007 08:58 AM
Yep, P95, I've noticed that too.
February 12th, 2007 09:44 AM
short trigger reset is the key.
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February 12th, 2007 09:51 AM
I have noticed this with my guns too. Not just pistols but rifles too.
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February 12th, 2007 02:05 PM
I'd think so, and there are multiple factors including the user.
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February 12th, 2007 02:36 PM
I think there is, but it's not just the gun. It's a combination of the gun, the shooter, the target, and the range. Change any of those variables, and the frequency is going to change.
Originally Posted by P95Carry
February 12th, 2007 03:41 PM
I've noticed this with my 5906, I've belted off 15 rounders with it fairly quickly on steel. My PT111 is pretty new and I haven't figured out its rhythm yet, different trigger setup on them and there is quite a bit more weight to the 5906.
February 12th, 2007 04:03 PM
IMHO its the shooter more than the action . The ergonomics of the firearm , familiarity with the trigger , and shooter rapid fire experiance all play a part , but my point is the more you shoot fast , the faster you can shoot effectively. The time between shots is dependant on the shooter , not the action since we see some amazing feats with double action revolvers (JERRY MICULEK) , single action revolvers ( bill mundin i belive his name is ) that can actualy out run a 1911 keeping 5 rounds on target , as well as the wizzards of ipsc , pin gun , and 3 gun matches.
Spend some time shooting as fast as you can keeping your rounds in a pre defined area , and then shoot faster .. flat out will never shoot asprin tablets off a 2x4 at 10 paces , but some work full out hitting clay pidgens at that range will greatly increase the speed you can knock the asprins off lol .
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