why are there very few "CCO style/size" guns?

This is a discussion on why are there very few "CCO style/size" guns? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hi all, I did a lot of research before purchasing the first guns I would consider carrying: a Glock 19 and a Sig P239. I ...

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Thread: why are there very few "CCO style/size" guns?

  1. #1
    Member Array Chris17404's Avatar
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    why are there very few "CCO style/size" guns?

    Hi all,

    I did a lot of research before purchasing the first guns I would consider carrying: a Glock 19 and a Sig P239. I am still in the testing/learning/evaluation stage and trying to determine which will become my trusted EDC, and which will be used on occasion at the range, etc.

    While doing my investigation, I noticed a lack of guns in what I call the "CCO style/size" catagory, which to me means a medium-sized barrel length (around 4 inches) and a "more compact" frame size which has a smaller magazine capacity than normal.

    Of course, the best example of this concept is the Colt CCO pistol, which to me sees like the ideal concealed carry 1911. The trade offs are well balanced in my opinion. If I were looking for a .45 ACP pistol to carry, this would be on my short list.

    But why are there so few of these types of guns made today? It would seem that these types of guns would be very popular. The reduced grip length helps in concealment, and the longer barrel aids in sighting/accuracy. The only drawbacks are lower mag capacity and shorter grips to hold on to, but I think *many* people who carry would be happy with that.

    Other than the Colt CCO, what other gun models are available in this "style/size" catagory. The Kahr P9 Covert comes to my mind. Is there a Kimber model also?

    I'd like to here your thoughts on this, and also suggestions on other pistol models that would fit in this category.

    Looking forward to your replies...

    Chris

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array dunndw's Avatar
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    Kimber Ultra Raptor, Para COO, Glock 30, Glock 36, Glock 26/27

    Just off the top of my head
    Last edited by dunndw; February 12th, 2007 at 09:30 PM. Reason: I can't type

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    I think there is a new M&P out that would fit the bill .. with a .45 version I believe coming soon.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

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    Member Array echo5tango's Avatar
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    i love my "CCO" size glock:


    g17 chopped to take g19 magazines

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    CZ 2075 RAMI, though it's a bit wide. Taurus Millennium Pro line. Smith M&P compact line. Smith CS45 and CS9. Beretta 9000. Bersa Thunder.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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    Senior Member Array Vaquero 45's Avatar
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    You already mentioned the Glock 19 and Sig P239, 2 excellent examples of compact pistols. Not too big, not too small....just right!

    HK makes compact pistols that are very nice. Can't go wrong with an HK, but they are pricey. Look for a nice used one.

    http://www.gunshopfinder.com/hk/uspc-lemmain.jpg

    Smith & Wesson has several models of compact pistols to choose from. Here is a 4013 in .40 S&W that's a nice compact size. Nice and thin, alloy frame makes it not too heavy and not too light.

    http://www.gzjsj.com.cn/xingun8-2/xi...a_sw_m4013.jpg

    Kahr makes nice compacts with 3.5 inch barrels and regular grips (not pinky danglers). Here's a 4 inch barrel model, 5 inches high and .94 inch wide. The triggers are sweeet on these.

    http://www.kahr.com/pistols_40sw.html#40sw

    Ruger pistols are known for being a bit on the bulky side. They do have a new .45 that they call a "compact," though. It is fairly slim, and has a 4" barrel. With the polymer frame, it is fairly light. I've owned one, they are really comfortable to shoot. Kind of pushes the envelope of what you could call a "compact," but if you want a .45, it's a good choice.

    http://www.gunblast.com/images/Ruger-P345/MVC-006F.jpg

    The Beretta Cougar is an often overlooked compact that is a fine weapon. It has a unique rotating barrel design that makes for fine accuracy. It's a bit thick, but it is compact in height and length. Stoeger now makes the Cougar on Beretta machinery in Turkey, and new ones go for about $300 - $350.

    http://www.frano-zbrane.sk/images/Beretta/8000.jpg

    There is a mini-Cougar with a short grip, but the same barrel length also.

    http://kaliber.com.pl/images/cms/763...ougar_Inox.JPG

    Here's the new Springfield Armory XD45 compact. It has a shortened grip (10+1 capacity), but retains the 4" barrel. It also comes with a 13 round mag with a spacer, so you can have your cake and eat it too!

    http://www.springfield-armory.com/xd.php

    Hope this helps a little.
    Slow is smooth.....smooth is fast.

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    whw
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    Previous posts give a great overview of some alternatives for you. Glock alone makes ccw pistols in 9mm, .40, .357 and .45. Same with XD. Move to the 1911 frames and you can add a lot more. Don't forget all the revolvers that are legitimate carry guns. J-frames and K-frames are carried all the time.

    Good luck with your choice. The two you have focused on are great guns.

    whw

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    Member Array FIREARMZ's Avatar
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    I personally tote a G19 or G17 everyday and have no problems concealing either of them. If you do decide to go with a 1911 gun, just remember that as you go smaller than a 5 inch model the more likely hood of malfunctions and stoppages.

    Plenty of good reliable guns have already been mentioned, but dollar for dollar the G19 is really going to be hard to beat.
    Ken Forbus Owner of FIREARMZ
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    Member Array Mark Garrity's Avatar
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    Chris,
    I think you are correct about it being the ultimate carry package.
    I cuurently have two custom 1911 CCOs in the works, a 45 ACP on a Colt Officers frame with Caspain slide and a 10mm with Caspian slide and frame.
    I think sometimes gun companies just drop the ball or miss the point.
    Such as Sig-Sauer recently. They discontinued the short-gripped P245recently and replaced it with the P220 carry, which is a full-size P220 grip frame with short P245 slide. I fail to see the logic in a long grip, short slide combination. The grip is what is most difficult to properly conceal, especially if carrying IWB.
    "He who makes things with his hands is a laborer, he who makes things with his hands and his head is a craftsman, he who makes things with his hands, his head, and his heart is an artist."
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    Member Array jercamp45's Avatar
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    Oh yeah!

    Love my CCO!! It does, to me, represent the perfect size for CCW and I do carry it every day(in a Milt Sparks Versamax as I write this).
    The XD 45 compact is similar, but fatter than the 1911.
    Kimber makes the Compact model that is very close...the CDP Compact is melted down with all the bells and whistles.
    I know that Colt reintroduced a CCO at the request of Gunsite, but I have not idea how many were made or if they are still available.
    If I was rich, I'd go the Caspian route and have one buit to my specifications........but maybe later.

  12. #11
    Member Array FIREARMZ's Avatar
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    I agree with Mark onthe 220 Carry, and I might add he makes some really nice leather to hold your CCW too. My buddy Paul Gomez turned me on to some of his stuff last year.
    Ken Forbus Owner of FIREARMZ
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    Member Array Chris17404's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the replies, guys. It seems there are more of these style guns that I thought... I guess I just needed to broaden my definition of it.

    Mark... I just noticed that SigArms has introduced a new P220 Compact which has a shorter frame (6+1 capacity) and P245 barrel length. Here are some details:

    http://www.ordnanceoutsellers.com/pg18.jpg
    http://www.ordnanceoutsellers.com/pg19.jpg

    These look somewhat promising, but I bet they are rather heavy.

    Chris

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    Member Array XNavyflyer's Avatar
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    I am not an expert (and I don't play one on TV) but I believe that the part of the grip that is the most difficult to conceal is the butt end. I personally do not like my pinky dangling underneath the grip which happens to me on the CCO type pistols. The concept of a bobtail commander sized gun intrigued me so I went out and bought a Dan Wesson CBOB. I'm very impressed! Without getting into the quality of the gun (which is superb by the way), the feel of the gun in hand is better than any other 1911 I own. I haven't worn it yet but concealing it should be a breeze. I might get some slimline alumagrips for it to make it a little thinner but other than that it's about perfect for a steel carry gun. I'm thinking about bobbing my S&W 1911sc commander for a nice lightweight alternative. A bobtail is something to consider if you're thinking about a CCO but have large mitts.

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    VIP Member Array pogo2's Avatar
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    Wilson Combat makes these

    The Wilson Combat website shows two different versions of the 1911 pistol you describe, with 4 inch barrel and shorter "Officers" length grip. One of these is called the SDS - Stealth Defense System:

    Wilson SDS web page


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    Distinguished Member Array Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    I would consider my SIG P228 to be in this category.
    Why Ike, whatever do you mean? Maybe poker's just not your game Ike. I know! Let's have a spelling contest!

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