Opinions Wanted: "Professional-issue" guns vs. "civilian guns"

Opinions Wanted: "Professional-issue" guns vs. "civilian guns"

This is a discussion on Opinions Wanted: "Professional-issue" guns vs. "civilian guns" within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I made up the terms in the title to be as descriptive of the issue as I can be. My best friend from the Navy ...

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Thread: Opinions Wanted: "Professional-issue" guns vs. "civilian guns"

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    Distinguished Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    Opinions Wanted: "Professional-issue" guns vs. "civilian guns"

    I made up the terms in the title to be as descriptive of the issue as I can be. My best friend from the Navy is a also a huge gun person, probably more than me. We have friendly disagreements about guns all the time. I am trying to decide on a new gun. And yes, I know, it's whatever I feel comfortable with. I got that. He has a premise, though, that he will not buy or carry a pistol that is not widely issued by a major law enforcement or military agencies.

    So Glock, S&W, Beretta, HK, Sig, etc. would be cool for him. Springfield, CZ, Ruger, etc. would not. So my question is: How important do you think that "professional stamp" is? Does going through the hoops of professional selection make for a better, more reliable firearm, or does it just result in the lowest bidder getting the business? And even if it does make a difference, how much difference does that make to a civilian CC'er?
    Recon1342 likes this.
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    VIP Member Array LimaCharlie's Avatar
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    Most government agencies buy on low-bid minimum standards. I would not carry what many agencies carry. I buy what I like and what works for me.
    I carry a gun, because a Cop is too heavy.

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    VIP Member Array Ksgunner's Avatar
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    I carry a Ruger and it works well for me. The military can carry what they want.

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    He's letting his ego cloud his judgement.
    I'm not saying we should kill all the stupid people. I'm saying remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.

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    Member Array Gabill's Avatar
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    I think a lot of Law Enforcement would rather carry their personal then what is issued to them. At least the few I talked to would. A lot are satisfied with what they are issued. it goes with what you are comfortable with.
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    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    Springfield, CZ and Ruger? I can't know the depth of your friends knowledge or experience. Could be a S.E.A.L., or could be a pastry chef. Yet, IMHO, his Navy I.D. alone doesn't make his opinion gun-gospel. Just because a kitten is born in an oven, does NOT automatically make it...a biscuit.
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

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    Given the professional use that CZ sees outside of the states, I'd be hard pressed to deny it's capability as a concealed carry gun. I'm pretty sure it isn't even aware of what country it's in so it wouldn't know it could act in an unprofessional manner...

    Now to answer your question, I'd say yes and no.

    I would probably not trust something that had no real history unless that firearm had really proven itself reliable to me personally. Of course, any firearm I carry is going to have to prove itself before I'll carry it but I'd be more likely to trust an out of the box Glock or S&W over something that had no history on the open market. I wouldn't have any real concerns about carrying a Ruger, CZ or any other big name once the individual firearm had 300-400 rounds through it.
    Eric357 and Recon1342 like this.
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    Your friend is missing out on a lot of great guns. Ignore his advice and get what you want
    ”God grants Liberty only to those who love it, and are always ready to guard and defend it.”
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    Your points are shallow... my points are Hollow....

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    CZ has major military and police department market share. Just not within the U.S.

    Springfield armory has the FBI SWAT/HRT contract, or if they now longer do that has been a recent change.

    But, just to show some of the fallacy of your friend's thought process. The U.S. government chose to issue S&W Sigma 9mm pistols to the Afghan police.

    I have guns from all over the spectrum, and from every maker mentioned in the original post except H&K. Buy what you like, run enough ammo to be sure it is reliable, and then don't worry about it. I'd feel much more comfortable carrying my Glock 19 than my Cobra derringer, but that is because I put enough rounds through both of them to know how reliable they are.
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    Senior Member Array Rabbit212's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost tracker View Post
    Springfield, CZ and Ruger? I can't know the depth of your friends knowledge or experience. Could be a S.E.A.L., or could be a pastry chef. Yet, IMHO, his Navy I.D. alone doesn't make his opinion gun-gospel. Just because a kitten is born in an oven, does NOT automatically make it...a biscuit.
    Man I can't remember the last time I had kitten biscuits, yummy!!!
    Those are my principles, and if you don't like them.....well, I have others.

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    I think it's a little of both, and a lot also depends on the agency. I think they do have to be concerned about durability and reliability, but will choose the affordable option once whatever standards they have are met. I think firearms manufacturers also recognize that there is an advertising benefit to being able to say "the X police department uses our firearms!". A lot also depends on the needs and financial status of the agency - some have more stringent reliability needs, and bigger budgets, and others are cash-strapped. So looking at what the Secret Service or the Navy SEALs carry may give you a more accurate picture of reliability than looking at what a more cash-strapped department carries.
    gunpoor likes this.

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    JMF552 ... You pose an interesting question. As stated above, government agencies weigh many factors when selecting firearms and often go (especially at the state and local level) with the low bidder when all other factors are similar/equal. Accordingly, to rule out excellent manufacturers with well proven track records such as Ruger, Springfield, CZ, etc., because glocks or S&W offerings happened to be "cheaper" for a local PD to purchase on a given day is very short sighted IMHO. I'd simply ask to see the written evidence supporting his position . YMMV
    ‘‘We, the People are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts — not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution.’’

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    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    I have a (musical) friend that likes Barry Manilow and hates Little Feat. We don't listen to much music together.
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

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    Distinguished Member Array denclaste's Avatar
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    Oh yes, lets list the governments handgun purchases that were a unqualified success. 1911and some revolvers are all I can think of. To judge a handguns suitability based on LEO or government procurement is certainly short sighted. There are quite a few quality handguns out today that have never been purchased for government or LEO usage. Hopefully, once your buddy matures some he will see how misguided his choices are.
    BamaT and michael t like this.

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    Senior Member Array Rock_Castle's Avatar
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    Just buy a Glock in the caliber you want and call it good.
    5lima30ret and glockcoma like this.

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