Cocked and Locked? - Page 4

Cocked and Locked?

This is a discussion on Cocked and Locked? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I carry a wilson Combat CQB compact. Always in condition 1 ( cocked and locked ) This is the way the gun was designed to ...

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Thread: Cocked and Locked?

  1. #46
    New Member Array richa60's Avatar
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    I carry a wilson Combat CQB compact. Always in condition 1 ( cocked and locked ) This is the way the gun was designed to be carried. I also have several Sigs but no longer cary them as I prefer the Wilson. I attended a tatical hand gun school and have no trouble with the safety, off on the draw, or on before holstering. Remeber when you go to holster the Sig after firing you would need to use the decocker to lower the hammer. I have personally seen this not forgotten.


    Whatever gun you carry you need to be comfortable with it. I think anyone with average motor skills would be fine with cocked and locked. But as with any mode of carry you need to practice until it is second nature to you.

    Just a note that the Tyler Tx PD will not let any of there officers carry ( on duty ) cocked and locked. This is a department call not the officers call and has nothing to do with safety. The Sheepel sometime get upset when they see this.
    Regards Richard


  2. #47
    OD*
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    A citizen noted the hammer back on the 1911 carried in the waist band by Charlie Miller, Texas Ranger. The Citizen asks, "Isn't That Dangerous?" Charley replied, "I wouldn't carry the son of a ***** if it wasn't dangerous."

    I couldn't agree more.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

  3. #48
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    Thumbs up Thanks For The Addition OD

    Yep, Sure Looks Mighty Dangerous.

  4. #49
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    QKShooter,

    Anytime sir.
    Being new here, it's taking me sometime to catch up. If I'm dredging out old dead topics, please let me know.

    This has been a very enlightening thread, you can certainly tell those who know the 1911 and those that don't.

    Guns are dangerous, period.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

  5. #50
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Guns are Dangerous?

    Quote Originally Posted by OD
    Guns are dangerous, period.
    I'm sorry, you're new. But: NO! NO! NO!

    There is NO such thing as a dangerous WEAPON. There are ONLY dangerous PEOPLE.

    See?

    Allowing anybody to designate any object as needing a predetermined level of "safety" is the beginning of the end. The slide away from freedom is already well underway as the camel's nose of government regulation inches it's way ever deeper into our lives. Sorry for the rant, but here on this forum we try to stay away from incorrect generalizations on such a broad scale.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  6. #51
    OD*
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    Please, forgive my slip in protocol.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

  7. #52
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by richa60
    Whatever gun you carry you need to be comfortable with it. I think anyone with average motor skills would be fine with cocked and locked. But as with any mode of carry you need to practice until it is second nature to you.
    I agree 10000% As a civilian with a CCW permit, and having been a LEO and to law school as well as knowing the profoundly anti-gun attitudes of the sheeple in the area as well as in the State Attorney and the media, I have to take all of this into account when I carry. Actually PRAISE be to Marion Hammer (past Pres of the NRA) and to Jeb Bush, but we just got a great law signed which precludes jurisdictional harassment in the event of a good shooting as per our now expanded "Castle Doctrine" and the "No Duty to Retreat" provision therein. If you're someplace you have a right to be and can be lawfully armed and are attacked you do not have to "retreat" but can stand your ground and resort to deadly force. If such is justifiable the new law says you cannot be arrested and prosecuted by an antigun D.A. just to "send a message" of deterrence by draining your financial resources on a costly defense of a case the prosecutors already know is a loser. This provision also prevents a wounded attacker or his estate (if hopefully, he is a good attacker--that is--dead) from bringing a LAWSUIT against the bad guy. Trial lawyers hate this but tough.

    To forestall problems of this nature (in other states where reciprocity exists) I have chosen to carry either a striker actuated firearm (Glock) or DA first shot (Sig P245 and I agree about decocking the last shot) but now I'm leaning to the DAO specifically the ParaOrd LDA action style. I'm looking to buy their new model called COLONEL (~sigh~ twas but a mere captain myself, my buddies will think I suffer from delusions of grandeur!).
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  8. #53
    OD*
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    To forestall problems of this nature (in other states where reciprocity exists)
    Could you clarify how that affects what type action you carry?
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

  9. #54
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Wink Stupid Lawyer Tricks...

    Quote Originally Posted by OD
    Could you clarify how that affects what type action you carry?
    Here is the deal: If you should happen to be involved in a self defense shooting in all likelihood your split second decision will be scrutinized by a Grand Jury and a hostile prosecutor. Although you and I both well know that we fired while covered perfectly by the law a prosector is going to try and sway a jury made up of perfectly ordinarily folks IGNORANT of firearms! This means that they are going to take YOUR gun and allow each juror to "dry fire" it in court. While we know that the 4 or even 5 pound trigger is reasonable for our skill level to send the round downrange at the appropriate moment, the prosecutor is going to let your trigger break cause those jurors a lot of alarm: "YIKES! It WENT OFF SO FAST AND EASY" is what they'll say. A prosecutor looking for the involuntary manslaughter conviction will intone:

    "Indeed ladies and gentlemen of the jury, it does SEEM to have a very LIGHT trigger. Obviously this man DID NOT INTEND FOR HIS THREE SHOTS TO CENTER THEMSELVES ON OUR "VICTIMS" FOREHEAD!" Or something like that.

    Anyway I like the 10.6 pound DA first shot of the Sig as it is unmistakable that it is about to go BOOM and should provide an extra layer in the defense. All subsequent SA shots are 6.6 pounds, and that's not bad to let some juror squeeze in court. Same for the Glock and the LDA ParaOrdnance (although the pull is less here, the trigger travel will suffice). Of course a good shoot is a good shoot no matter what kind of gun or action you use, but the criminal trial will inevitably be followed by the civil trial for the $$$$$$.

    The savvy prosecutor will go for something more serious in trial if you have a custom gun or made aftermarket changes to the gun other than sights or you are using ultra deadly ammo...something that is not used by the cops. However neither Glaser or MagSafe to date has suffered any losses in court despite numerous attempts. Glaser SAFETY slug and MagSAFE was a stroke of legal genius in product identification so I use them to minimize any richchets from a public firefight that might result in an innocent bystander being hit which might result in the aforemented trials.

    I would NOT use either one in a cold climate! Then I would go to whatever the PD is using because you can't go wrong there. But if you're using BLACK TALON or DEVASTATOR ammo the DA is going to say:

    "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury: This individual is using ammunition that is far more lethal than the police or even our armed forces are using in Iraq!!! Further he has gone to the trouble and HUGE expense of altering or customizing his gun or even to the extent of spending THOUSANDS of dollars for a totally custom weapon! Might you be led to believe this man really subconsciously WANTS to KILL and just anybody will do?"

    I know I know....it's all BS but that's the line the DA will use.

    Finally, once they get you on the stand because you'll just have to show you're all about being law abiding (or in a civil trial you have no choice, you MUST testify if called).....the D.A. (or plaintiff attorney) will ask you:

    "Do you REGRET your actions that night?"

    Watch out! Of course we would regret a fatal shooting, but in a court of law the word "REGRET" has a more complex meaning. Regret implies GUILT.

    Much better to look anguished and say:

    Regret? NO. But I GRIEVE for that young man and his parents. I GRIEVE for what HIS actions FORCED me to do. But regret? Never. Otherwise I'd be a dead victim of HIS predatory behavior.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  10. #55
    Distinguished Member Array RSSZ's Avatar
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    1911's in Cond.1 ALWAYS !! I have had students that love Glocks. They train with them and carry them for CCW.------- BUT----- they absolutely refuse to carry a round in the chamber. I think that I've had 5 or 6 total,and I have not convinced any of the 5 or 6 to carry a round in the chamber. I have talked to very Glockie Glockers and gained lots of knowledge on Glocks just to use on my students,but to no avail. I do not try to change their minds anymore. I just make sure that they are aware of the mechanics of the weapon and leave it at that. --------

  11. #56
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    Glock owners who carry chamber empty do so to compensate for their irrational fears as well as their lack of experience with firearms. Trying to convince them otherwise is usually a waste of time until they overcome their fears and gain experience over time.

    Only then will they understand the error of their original thinking. The only drawback to this method, is that you have to hope that they don't get killed during their 'growth period.'

  12. #57
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    +1! Also, being a bit late in the thread, it may have been addressed, but:
    Carrying at "half-cock" is a great way to ND, or ID (intentional discharge) into yourself. You may be of greater than average proportions, but for the average-joe, thumbing to full-cock does not leave you in control of the firearm.

    Also, the "half-cock" notch on the 1911 is not intended as a "carry-mode", but a fail-safe. It is shaped and hardened appropriately. Setting your hammer this way, consistantly, can easily peen (and will roughen/possibly fracture) your sear's face. Peened sear=slip-fire. This shouldn't even be a discussion. :chairshot

  13. #58
    OD*
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    Carrying a semi-auto pistol with an empty chamber never made a lick of sense to me. You have effectively went from a HAND-gun to a HANDS-gun.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

  14. #59
    OD*
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    ExSoldier762,

    Thank you for taking the time to post that, you raise some interesting questions. I have another question that I have posted many times on gun-boards when conversations like these arise;

    Can anyone post just one documented case of handloads or firearm action types, making any difference at all in the outcome of a justifiable self-defense shooting, in civil or criminal court?
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

  15. #60
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    I love the "1911" style but I prefer the DA so my primary carry is HKs USP45.I can carry 45 cal,to me sufficient,12 in the mag and one chambered,hammer down.all I need to do is pull the trigger.And if I really want to carry without any other motions required to fire I have a walther p99,striker fired,DA, and no external safety(or hammer to snag).I think that both have a bit of trigger travel, but I can get over that.I carry cor-bon in the p99 and magtech in the 45,both are +p.what do you think exsoldier?am I covered?you seem to be the person to ask.lawyer wise should I be carrying the walther ?

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