Need some suggestions....

This is a discussion on Need some suggestions.... within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by SSKC I'm happy to help. I hope it works out well. Let us know. SSKC Okay, just in and here's what happened. ...

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Thread: Need some suggestions....

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Exclamation Range Report

    Quote Originally Posted by SSKC
    I'm happy to help. I hope it works out well. Let us know.

    SSKC
    Okay, just in and here's what happened. We had the indoor range all to ourselves for the most part. Since it had been a few days, I started her out on the Browning just to insure she was still "in tune" with what I've taught her. She went thru 50rds of 9mm at a range of 7-10 yards starting with aimed fire and slowly working up to controlled pairs and then the fast HAMMER. Kept all rounds COM.

    Then I moved her up to my wife's Commander 45. But I moved the target a bit closer, perhaps 5 yards. Once again as I ALWAYS DO, I modelled the behavior/technique I wanted to see, first. I squeezed off a magazine into the cranial vault of the man shaped target. Then I put one of those adhesive Shoot-n-See overlays on the COM and had her try the 45. I was holding my breath and watching her like a hawk for unsafe actions. But she was calm and collected and she LOVED THE 1911! Not all rounds COM but even her flyers were well grouped. Those just indicate an unfamiliarity with the new weight of the gun and being a teeeeny bit recoil conscious. Now all she needs is practice. She wants to stay with the 45 and that's what we'll do.

    I want her to get her hand and upper body strength up to a point where she can fire a DA or DAO easily. That's doable for sure. She is extremely determined to succeed and has a great attitude! I'd like to see her handle a Sig Sauer P220 or P245 or perhaps the new Ruger P345. I also understand that Kahr is coming out with a 45 and then of course there is the option of going to the ParaOrdnance LDA 1911 series....in full or Commander size of course.

    SHE DID EXTREMELY WELL TODAY AND I'M VERY PROUD OF HER PERFORMANCE!!!!
    "If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child might have peace."
    --- Thomas Paine
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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  3. #17
    Member Array SSKC's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Excellent!

    That's great! Sounds like you are both excited and having a great time. I'm glad it worked out.

    SSKC

  4. #18
    Senior Member Array jdsumner's Avatar
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    Brother, if I had a chance, I'd let her try an STI Trojan in 9mm. Good cartridge in a great platform: all steel, 5" 1911. Can be ordered with slim grips or standard, depending on grip of her hands, fixed or adj sights. A good trigger will make learning so much easier as it directly relates to good hits (positive, visible reinforcement). I love mine. My wife likes it so much more than the revolver she'd been using. She really likes the 1911 platform, just not the .45acp. Also, based on what you're saying about her hand strength, the light recoil spring makes it easy to charge.
    I hope this helps,

    Dan

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array CLASS3NH's Avatar
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    How about a Smith 4040PD or a 4013TSW? the TSW has been worked a little by the Performance Center to an extent it's better than the regular shelf smiths......The grip fram is a bit smaller in order to fit a smaller hand... maybe the Smith 6906? 469? as they're the same size grip frame.. I know the price is high.but a P7 might be a good idea as well......Squeeze cocker for safe decocking.and if she's concerned about the gun being "unsafe in storage" she can always take the firing pin system right out of the rear of the slide assembly.....just a suggestion for thought

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Thumbs down S&W AUTOS?

    Quote Originally Posted by CLASS3NH
    How about a Smith 4040PD or a 4013TSW? the TSW has been worked a little by the Performance Center to an extent it's better than the regular shelf smiths......The grip fram is a bit smaller in order to fit a smaller hand... maybe the Smith 6906? 469? as they're the same size grip frame.. I know the price is high.but a P7 might be a good idea as well......Squeeze cocker for safe decocking.and if she's concerned about the gun being "unsafe in storage" she can always take the firing pin system right out of the rear of the slide assembly.....just a suggestion for thought
    I just HATE S&W autos! My feeling is that S&W makes a better revolver and Colt makes a better semiauto. S&W Autos feel ergonomically uncomfortable, like they're gonna "squirt" out of my hand. It's all subjective, I realize, but a teacher can't help but subliminally project some of these biases....lol I'll steer her right. Her brother feels exactly the same way about S&W's! Maybe that's where I got my thoughts from originally. lol

    As far as anything H&K or even remotely GERMAN..well, see the webster definition for "Zionist."
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  7. #21
    Member Array Obiwan's Avatar
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    A few years ago I got to fire quite a few rounds out of a DAO Smith .40. I actually liked it. I don't know about reliability/longevity with them, but they shot nicely. In fact I liked it much better than the SIG DAO. My agency requires DAO. That's why the emphasis on the DAO system. We carry Beretta 96D DAO on duty. I carry H&K USPc .40 off duty.

    Having said that and since this thread is about women, my wife is more comfortable with her Smith 36 than the K40 that I bought her. She doesn't have the strength for slide manipulation.

    It sounds like training went well. Congrats. I guess the best way to find what she is comfortable with is by trial and error. By the way, what indoor range do you use? Trail Glades is getting anal about things and since there's no other outdoor range in Dade, I may go inside. The last one that I used was on 103rd st. in Hialeah by the railroad overpass. It was fine, just a little farther than I like to go. Have you used the range behind the Hialeah Speedway? How about the one by Warren Henry's?

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    OBIWAN, please contact me via e-mail. I have a club for you to check out, my IDPA club meets at the Trail Glades Combat Range on the second Saturday of the month and at Markham on the 4th Sat of the month and there are night shoots during the week at Markham. Check out http://www.tssa.net for more info! Tropical Sport Shooting Association was the first sanctioned IDPA club to be formed east of the Mississippi and it's a GREAT group of folks. We have quite a few LEOs, including DHS folks who shoot with us. Plus lawyers, (not as targets!), teachers, good folks.

    But I find the indoor ranges like Aces here in Dade are too expensive. I usually go to Big Al's up on Hallandale Beach Blvd when I have a CCW student I need to qualify on the range. Florida law doesn't require this, it's MY personal requirement. I won't turn anybody loose on the street unless they're competent to put all rounds COM at seven yards. That includes Controlled pairs and Hammers.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array CLASS3NH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier762
    I just HATE S&W autos! My feeling is that S&W makes a better revolver and Colt makes a better semiauto. S&W Autos feel ergonomically uncomfortable, like they're gonna "squirt" out of my hand. It's all subjective, I realize, but a teacher can't help but subliminally project some of these biases....lol I'll steer her right. Her brother feels exactly the same way about S&W's! Maybe that's where I got my thoughts from originally. lol

    As far as anything H&K or even remotely GERMAN..well, see the webster definition for "Zionist."
    Just trying to help. not an expert here, but I've owned about 300 handguns in my time. Bought and sold on the Dealer level as well. been selling from 1980 to 2000. maybe a nice 38 revolver with an action job would be the ticket she needs.. Either way, I've happy to hear she's doing well with your instructing.. best of luck in the quest

  10. #24
    Member Array ramtough47's Avatar
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    Exsoldier it seems to me you have alot of sound suggestions and comments to help out with this lady, I would like to add mine if you will allow it. I do not have the gun I'm fixing to suggest to you anymore but that another story, but i strongly suggest you follow "acparmed" comments on the Kahr.I had a P-9 for a couple of years and loved it.Trigger pull is similar to the glocks,very accurate,and after the break end rounds,very reliable as far as going bang when you pull the trigger.Saying all of this is nice but most important bit of info is this,every female that held it,shot it,or even just looked at it,liked it alot.Especially the way it fit their hand.

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Ramtough, I'd agree with you especially since I have heard that Kahr is coming out with a 45! Right now, the lady in question seems to have gotten hooked on the 45ACP based on her performance yesterday at the range with my wife's Commander.

    So, we'll stick with that for awhile. Let her try my Sig P245 after awhile. If she really gets into the 1911, I think I can satisy her brother's concerns by recommending she go with a ParaOrdnance TAC-4 LDA. She has very long slender fingers and pulling the trigger DA on my Beretta M92 was a chore. The LDA would address that. So far she has not had much trouble locking slides back or chambering rounds, thanks to some tricks I showed her (lock arms and rotate shoulders is one such, to chamber a round).
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  12. #26
    Member Array Armed in TN's Avatar
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    Exsoilder you are a role model to us all in taking this young lady under your wing and bringing her into the light. and i have to agree that you have had alot of sound advice, may i add mine. as a former soildier myself and handling both sidearms familiar to the armed services... being the 1911 and the 92FS which are good weapons. i have ventured into a new line of work, being LE (law enforcement). Alot of people do not like polymer guns, but for what they are the glock M36 may be a good weapon to try if you can and have access to one. the M36 has a double recoil spring and i think it has less kick than the M22 or G22 .40 cal. i own several Glocks and did not like plastic or tupperware guns straight out of the Army, but have grown to like them. Point and shoot. if you don't pull the trigger, they don't shoot. ask around and see if anyone has a G36. the G30 has the same recoil spring, but may be alittle wide for mose women to grip. just my opinion and please, keep up the good work.

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Now THERE'S a good idea! The range where we shoot has several Glocks to rent. I'll see if they have a M36. I used to own a M30 myself and it was a little blocky feeling for me.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  14. #28
    Member Array Armed in TN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier762
    Now THERE'S a good idea! The range where we shoot has several Glocks to rent. I'll see if they have a M36. I used to own a M30 myself and it was a little blocky feeling for me.
    well i have a G30, G36 and a G21 (issue weapon) and i have become a large fan of the glock for the reason i said before. you point, you shoot. good starter weapon, good home defense and great when it comes time to teachsomeone how to clean. glad i can help and look forward to more if i can!!!

  15. #29
    Senior Member Array rfurtkamp's Avatar
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    To answer one of the initial questions, the Sig Pro's grip frame is if anything a little larger than the regular full-sized 226. I have the custom shop 2009 - same frame as the 2340.

    If you're going to go SigPro, might I suggest the 2340 with a .357 Sig barrel? Ironically, I've found it's more controllable than the 2340 in .40 with a little more initial punch but it's closer to the .45 than the whip of the .40.

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by rfurtkamp
    To answer one of the initial questions, the Sig Pro's grip frame is if anything a little larger than the regular full-sized 226. I have the custom shop 2009 - same frame as the 2340.

    If you're going to go SigPro, might I suggest the 2340 with a .357 Sig barrel? Ironically, I've found it's more controllable than the 2340 in .40 with a little more initial punch but it's closer to the .45 than the whip of the .40.
    My only problem with the 357 Sig is that it is L-O-U-D! For a novice it's almost guaranteed to insure "flinch" even with hearing protection and that will lead to negative feelings if they have to fire without them. Sounds odd but it's true, they may still fire but they won't be as accurate as the situation may call for.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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