Need some suggestions....

Need some suggestions....

This is a discussion on Need some suggestions.... within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Okay, here is the situation: I'm instructing the sister of my best friend (for free, lol) in firearms safety and with an eye to getting ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Question Need some suggestions....

    Okay, here is the situation: I'm instructing the sister of my best friend (for free, lol) in firearms safety and with an eye to getting her the very first gun she will have ever owned. We're talking here of a CLASSIC New YAWK liberal who in her 50-60+ years has never held or even liked guns. Now I have created a raving fanatic after just a half dozen classes and trips to the range. She does NOT have much upper body strength including strength in her fingers. I'm working on a mild exercise regimen to remedy that. Her brother (my best friend) is a retired decorated SpecOps officer. She originally asked HIM to teach her and HE made her come to me.

    I started her on a .22LR SA. Then we went to a 9mm. Beretta M92, but she couldn't handle the DA first shot. So we moved to a Browning Hi-Power and stayed there. She got very good. She is also good with the Glock M19. I steadily and consistently corrected errors in technique and showed her some tricks with triggers....I want her to go as far as she can go in being competent with all forms and actions. However the NEXT step vexes me. Has anybody fired a Sig Pro .40? What is the recoil and muzzle jump like? I know this is very subjective, But I'd like some feedback on intermediate steps to try with her. She didn't like my Glock M27 or the Glock M23. IOW, I need some suggestions on 40's....later we'll move to the 45 and still later, if she wants, the 41 & 44's magnum and otherwise.

    I guess I'm looking for a 40 with a fairly light DA trigger pull and a full sized grip for a slender female hand that's not overly big....Is that too much to ask?
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    I would stay away from the 40's most women i know find most of them uncomfortable to shoot

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Question Suggestions sought...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bud White
    I would stay away from the 40's most women i know find most of them uncomfortable to shoot
    Why? Because of barrel whip and recoil? I should say this lady is an extreme feminist and a strong zionist. She is very determined to be successful and I very much think if I said words to the effect of "Lil Girl, you don't want to do that...." I'd get a swift kick in a very tender area! I think, I would deserve it, too. I taught my daughter to shoot at age 10. She can now handle ALL of my guns and has as her very own a Ruger SP101 .357mag.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  4. #4
    Distinguished Member Array Gideon's Avatar
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    I'm not too experienced in any of this, but I am curious what she's getting out of this, and what she hopes to? In other words, it sounds like you're covering just about all of the calibers, but for what purpose? If she's taken to target/range shooting, perhaps something that's mild and cost effective to become really proficient with? Is she going to buy a gun? Is defense an issue at all? I've shot everything from .44's to .22's but I also find a .40 to be a little on the sharp side. Has she shot a 9mm yet? Just curious and i wish I had a personal shooting coach!
    Gideon

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    yes the barrel whip and the recoil some will shoot it but not many rounds my old lady will shoot 44 super redhawk vs a 40 smith my uncle has and prefers the 44

  6. #6
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    May I suggest a Kahr 9m/m? I am very impressed with the trigger and the recoil of this gun. I was teaching a young lady who is very fragile and she decided that this was the gun for her. The grip frame is very comfortable and the trigger is a consistent double action pull, which in my opinion is better than the Glock.
    The quality of these guns is so good that Wilson Combat is doing custom work on them.
    I think the 40 is a great caliber but as noted by TAPSCCW in another post, the caliber seems to be hard on guns and it is a very high pressure cartridge. I am not a particular advocate of the 9m/m but it is adequate when used properly, (meaning good hits). Ammo is also much cheaper for the 9 than the 40.
    Just my opinion for a gun to fill your specs.
    Heroes are people who do what has to be done, when it has to be done, regardless of the consequences

    "I like when the enemy shoots at me; then I know where the ******** are and can kill them."
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  7. #7
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    I too would think that one of the (many) 9mm platforms could serve very well - not to mention opening up a cheaper option for good and high volume practice.

    Overall tho - I'll take any ''conversion'' as good news!
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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  8. #8
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acparmed
    May I suggest a Kahr 9m/m? I am very impressed with the trigger and the recoil of this gun. I was teaching a young lady who is very fragile and she decided that this was the gun for her. The grip frame is very comfortable and the trigger is a consistent double action pull, which in my opinion is better than the Glock.
    The quality of these guns is so good that Wilson Combat is doing custom work on them.
    I think the 40 is a great caliber but as noted by TAPSCCW in another post, the caliber seems to be hard on guns and it is a very high pressure cartridge. I am not a particular advocate of the 9m/m but it is adequate when used properly, (meaning good hits). Ammo is also much cheaper for the 9 than the 40.
    Just my opinion for a gun to fill your specs.
    You know, all that you say.....it's not the first time that I've heard it and I'm going to suggest she try a Kahr 9mm. In fact, I'm going to cut and paste your post and send it to my buddy (the brother).
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  9. #9
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    Array acparmed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier762
    You know, all that you say.....it's not the first time that I've heard it and I'm going to suggest she try a Kahr 9mm. In fact, I'm going to cut and paste your post and send it to my buddy (the brother).
    When you hear it from one person, ok. When you hear it from several, you should maybe give it a try.

    One other note on the Kahr. Go with a steel frame not the polymer, it will have less felt recoil and less muzzle flip.
    Heroes are people who do what has to be done, when it has to be done, regardless of the consequences

    "I like when the enemy shoots at me; then I know where the ******** are and can kill them."
    ~George Patton

    DE OPPRESSO LIBER

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Cool Motivations

    Quote Originally Posted by Gideon
    I'm not too experienced in any of this, but I am curious what she's getting out of this, and what she hopes to? In other words, it sounds like you're covering just about all of the calibers, but for what purpose? If she's taken to target/range shooting, perhaps something that's mild and cost effective to become really proficient with? Is she going to buy a gun? Is defense an issue at all? I've shot everything from .44's to .22's but I also find a .40 to be a little on the sharp side. Has she shot a 9mm yet? Just curious and i wish I had a personal shooting coach!
    Gideon
    If you read my initial post you'll see what she has and has not fired. She is currently getting pretty good with my 9mm Browning Hi-Power.

    I've known her brother since 1972 when we were in high school. Back then, HE taught ME to handle a gun! But I've come a long way since then. Now OBI WAN....the student is the teacher...literally!

    Her motivations are typical of a liberal who suddenly realizes she's been LIED TO about guns. I suspect the fact that her brother is a decorated SpecOps warrior have something to do with it, but I really think that 911 was the ultimate wakeup call for her. She wants to feel "empowered" and I'm sure self defense has something to do with it, but one step at a time. Her brother also wants her to be able to pick up ANY weapon and be safe and competent in handling said weapon.

    There is also the fact that she lost another brother to cancer LAST WEEK (although it was three years in coming) but she wants to get closer to her remaining brother and he is quite expert in that arena. Lieutenant Colonel of Army Special Forces (retired)....ummmmmm yup.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  11. #11
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    Thumbs up

    ExSoldier,

    I'm not the most experienced guy in the world, but if you are looking at the .40 as the next "step up" for her (that's the way I interpreted your first post), why not skip it and just go to the .45? IMHO, the perceived recoil of a 1911 is less than the recoil of a lot of "lesser" caliber guns. Plus, if she's comfortable with the Hi-Power, then she knows the single-action platform.

    I shot a friend's Glock 27 recently, and found it a little on the uncomfortable side. I do most of my shooting with a USP .40 compact. But if I had to pick a gun to "shoot all day," it would most definitely be my 1911. It shoots like an old pair of jeans feels.

    By the way, hats off to your friend for sending his sister to you. While he is no doubt well-versed in firearms, sometimes being "family" can have a negative effect on the teaching process. It sounds to me like the two of you are doing a very nice job of properly introducing this woman to the joy of shooting.

    SSKC

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Question From 9mm to 45?

    Quote Originally Posted by SSKC
    ExSoldier,

    I'm not the most experienced guy in the world, but if you are looking at the .40 as the next "step up" for her (that's the way I interpreted your first post), why not skip it and just go to the .45? IMHO, the perceived recoil of a 1911 is less than the recoil of a lot of "lesser" caliber guns. Plus, if she's comfortable with the Hi-Power, then she knows the single-action platform.

    I shot a friend's Glock 27 recently, and found it a little on the uncomfortable side. I do most of my shooting with a USP .40 compact. But if I had to pick a gun to "shoot all day," it would most definitely be my 1911. It shoots like an old pair of jeans feels.

    By the way, hats off to your friend for sending his sister to you. While he is no doubt well-versed in firearms, sometimes being "family" can have a negative effect on the teaching process. It sounds to me like the two of you are doing a very nice job of properly introducing this woman to the joy of shooting.

    SSKC
    I've thought about that, too. Since we're going to the range in about an hour I think I'll take your advice and take my wife's 45 Commander along. I'm a bit concerned at the state of her upper body strength and the weight of the gun, but it's not too far a stretch up from the Browning and the kick of a 1911 is much more of a "push" than the sharp snap of a .40. Thanks! I'll try it and let you know.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  13. #13
    Member Array SSKC's Avatar
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    I'm happy to help. I hope it works out well. Let us know.

    SSKC

  14. #14
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    Sounds like you got her off to a good start. If she she shoots a 9mm well stick to it. Remember if you will do the gun will do! I agree with armedacp on the Kahr MK9, all stainless, nice trigger, easy to carry. It does have a short grip so she might like the K9 or E9 better. My lady has both along wih her Robar Glock 19. She has a 3 1/2 connector and a New York trigger spring in it and it does well. She might also consider the Advantage 22 conversion for it to practice. Keep her going in the right direction. There is nothing better than a converted liberal. Usually we call some gun owners that have made the change "a liberal that was mugged" God Bless Her we need more like her. I'd stay away from traditional double action guns due the problems with transition. Good luck!
    T.A.P.S.
    Tactics-Accuracy-Power-Speed

  15. #15
    Member Array triggertime's Avatar
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    I would suggest that she stick with whichever semiauto she shoots the best and has the least difficulty manipulating the slide.

    No sense in warming her up to a diminutive Kahr, or a .40 or .45 if she can't manipulate the slide to clear a malfunction...

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