Kimber Ultra Covert II - Thoughts? - Page 2

Kimber Ultra Covert II - Thoughts?

This is a discussion on Kimber Ultra Covert II - Thoughts? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by austinguy23 Nice looking pistols. Actually, the Ultra Carry II is in fact a .45 ACP... Duh! You are right! When the talk ...

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Thread: Kimber Ultra Covert II - Thoughts?

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by austinguy23 View Post
    Nice looking pistols. Actually, the Ultra Carry II is in fact a .45 ACP...
    Duh! You are right! When the talk shifted to 9mm I made the ASS-umption. Been awhile since I've checked Kimber's website.
    Cheers,
    Rod
    "We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters


  2. #17
    Member Array austinguy23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    In my very personal opinion it was a mistake for Kimber to install the firing pin safety in every single new model. They should still offer their guns without that, but that's just Lima theory.
    Stupid question - what is the firing pin safety and how does it work? That isn't the same as the thumb safety on the side of the frame is it?

  3. #18
    Member Array austinguy23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    Bottom line though...buy what makes YOU happy!
    Best advice I've heard yet ;-)

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by austinguy23 View Post
    Stupid question - what is the firing pin safety and how does it work? That isn't the same as the thumb safety on the side of the frame is it?
    A firing pin safety is added to a firearm to prevent the firing pin from striking the primer except when the weapon is fired intentionally. Older firearms, such as the Colt Single Action Army, were typically carried with the hammer down on an empty chamber to prevent a discharge in the event that the weapon was dropped on the hammer. Modern firearms typically have an inertial firing pin that does not rest upon the primer, but only comes in contact when sufficient motive force is provided by the hammer fall. A drop or a strike would not be sufficient.

    Another solution was the transfer bar, such as Iver Johnson's "safety automatic revolver" with it's "hammer the hammer" action. Ruger began using a transfer bar when it introduced its new model single-action revolvers. Ruger's transfer bar moves into place when the trigger is pulled, allowing the hammer to engage the firing pin.



    Colt introduced a firing pin safety in its Series 80 1911s. It's disengaged when the trigger is pulled. Many shooters complain that the safety adversely affects the trigger pull. The Kimber firing pin safety is an updated version of the design created by William L. Swartz in 1937. It's connected to the grip safety, rather than the trigger, so trigger pull is not affected. I don't notice any difference in the grip safety on my Kimber that has the Swartz safety (Ultra CDP II) or the one that doesn't have it (Desert Warrior).

    Is it necessary on a 1911? Probably not. tests have been conducted to see if a dropped 1911 would discharge. Because of the way the inertial firing pin works, the tests I've read about did not succeed in discharging the weapon. Does it affect functionality or reliability? I haven't found it to make any difference at all on my Ultra CDP II. Some shooters don't want one because it adds an extra mechanical device with the potential to fail, a very unlikely occurence.

    Here's a link to an article with more detail from American Handgunner:
    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...26/ai_92585769
    Cheers,
    Rod
    "We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters

  5. #20
    Senior Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodc13 View Post
    Is it necessary on a 1911? Probably not. tests have been conducted to see if a dropped 1911 would discharge. Because of the way the inertial firing pin works, the tests I've read about did not succeed in discharging the weapon. Does it affect functionality or reliability? I haven't found it to make any difference at all on my Ultra CDP II. Some shooters don't want one because it adds an extra mechanical device with the potential to fail, a very unlikely occurence.
    rodc13 had very good information on the firing pin safety.

    MOST firing pin safeties are not a problem. The two I have dealt with recently HAVE been and they've both been on Kimbers.

    One was failing to disengage no matter what, therefore not allowing the gun to fire, and the second was staying engaged at all times so it was pretty much useless and a pain to get the slide back on the gun after we were done using it.

    It was then that I decided I didn't like them.

    To be more specific on the Kimber models.

    Here is the difference between the Series I and Series II..

    Note the slide of a series I...


    and the frame...


    Now, note the slide and frame of a Series II...




    In the slide of the Series II there is a small "button" (the firing pin block) that is disengaged by a small pin in the frame (the firing pin block lifter located beside the diconnector) of the Series II that is pressed up when you engage the grip safety. The pin pushes up the firing pin block on the bottom of the slide which, in essence, releases your firing pin and allows it to fire.

    MOST people don't have problems will this little get up, and in order to take it out it requires a little bit of surgery. A lot of people I have met who enjoy Kimbers have taken them out just because they feel they are unnecessary. Some leave them in stating that they aren't a problem. The one in the picture above has never proved to be a problem, but it's getting removed here soon.

    My Series I (the one in the top pictures) has been dropped, kicked, beaten, you name it, and I have never had an AD because there was no firing pin safety.

    The choice is up to the shooter and so is the prejudice against the firing pin safety.

    P.S. Just be careful when you are putting the the slide back on after cleaning the Series II. If you push in the grip safety the firing pin block lifter will protrude from the frame and you could ram it with your slide as you are putting the slide back on the frame. I've heard of one case where someone rammed it so hard with their slide that it broke and it no longer reached high enough to disengage the firing pin block and the gun was about as useless as a paperweight until they could get it fixed.
    Last edited by limatunes; May 2nd, 2007 at 09:32 AM.

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    My Series I (the one in the top pictures) has been dropped, kicked, beaten, you name it, and I have never had an AD because there was no firing pin safety.
    Excellent follow-up, Limatunes, especially the statement above. 1911s don't just "go off". I've never had a moment's concern about a 1911 with no firing pin safety, either. I've not found a need to remove the safety from my Ultra CDP II, but if there was ever an inkling of a problem with it, it would be on its way to the gunsmith.
    Cheers,
    Rod
    "We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters

  7. #22
    Member Array LeatherNeck1's Avatar
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    I went the cheaper route and purchased the Ultra Carry II. It's a great little pistol and very concealable. It did take around 800 rounds to break it in properly. It currently resides in a Milt Sparks Watch 6 with a 1.5 in Milt Saprks belt.

  8. #23
    OD*
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    Kimber's version of the Colt/Swartz firing pin block,



    Colt's Series 80,

    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

  9. #24
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by OD View Post
    Kimber's version of the Colt/Swartz firing pin block,



    Colt's Series 80,

    Which do you find to be "the lesser of two evils?"

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdlv4_0 View Post
    Which do you find to be "the lesser of two evils?"
    You know what they say.. Choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil.


  11. #26
    OD*
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    Actualty John, I agree with Lima.

    But, if I were forced to choose, I prefer the Series 80 firing pin safety strictly on ease of maintenance, you don't have to remove the rear sight to replace the plunger spring.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

  12. #27
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by OD View Post
    Actualty John, I agree with Lima.

    But, if I were forced to choose, I prefer the Series 80 firing pin safety strictly on ease of maintenance, you don't have to remove the rear sight to replace the plunger spring.
    But with todays selection if you were down to Kimber or Colt, you'll have to make a selection.

    Granted Springfileds are still based on the series 70 (a tleast where the firing pin safety is concearned) if I'm not mistaken, but Sig 1911s, S&W 1911s, Auto Ordnance, and many others are builing models with the firing pin safety.

    It's getting hard to stay away from it.

    Thankfully most of the custom builders NHC, Wilson, Ed Brown etc. etc. still make non firing pin stop guns.

  13. #28
    OD*
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    But with todays selection if you were down to Kimber or Colt, you'll have to make a selection.
    That's true sir, in that case it would be the Colt.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

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