Choose One: SIG P229R DAK, H&K P2000 LEM, KAHR T9

This is a discussion on Choose One: SIG P229R DAK, H&K P2000 LEM, KAHR T9 within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I am gathering advice for my first handgun purchase. After 3 months of research (I would say about 300 hours) reading every magazine with "Gun" ...

View Poll Results: After reading my post, which gun would you choose?

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  • SIG P229 DAK

    48 51.06%
  • H&K P2000 LEM

    34 36.17%
  • KAHR T9

    12 12.77%
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Thread: Choose One: SIG P229R DAK, H&K P2000 LEM, KAHR T9

  1. #1
    New Member Array glasslobster's Avatar
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    Choose One: SIG P229R DAK, H&K P2000 LEM, KAHR T9

    I am gathering advice for my first handgun purchase.

    After 3 months of research (I would say about 300 hours) reading every magazine with "Gun" in the title...cover-to-cover, I have learned A LOT, and I have narrowed my choices down to THREE models.

    I am asking for your opinion on which YOU would buy, keeping this in mind:
    "What if this is the only handgun I ever get a chance to buy?"

    The pistol is for home protection and I intend to take it to the range and shoot as often as possible because "owning" a gun is not all there is to owning a gun! Living in Los Angeles there's a slim-to-none chance of getting a CCW permit. I live in a great neighborhood but great neighborhoods are where criminals go to steal great things,

    In addition to my handgun purchase, I am also purchasing a Benelli 12GA pump-action shotgun. But...back to the handgun.

    I have no children in my home.
    I have spent a total of 32 hours at the range.
    I am 150lbs lean and lanky, with moderate upper body strength.
    I have fired a .45 and .44 magnum and I could not handle the recoil properly with 2 hands, let alone in a "wounded situation" with one hand.. no way.

    My pistol MUST meet the first 4 conditions.

    1. 100% Reliable
    2. Chambered for 9mm
    3. Ability to operate with one hand if necessary
    4. A model that has been thoroughly field-tested by someone other than the author of a magazine article.
    5. Double Action Only WITH TRIGGER PULL 10lb OR LESS
    6. Preferably steel frame, but open to polymer

    Other less important options, rails are great, "combat" trigger guard (non rounded), smooth uniform trigger pulls and shorter resets are nice too.

    If I had the cash in my hand today I would be banging my head against the glass looking at the following:

    A. SIG P229R DAK 9mm
    B. H&K P2000 LEM 9mm
    C. KAHR T9

    Choose one, and if you can tell me WHY, or make ANOTHER suggestion it would be MUCH APPRECIATED.

    Thank you kindly,

    -J.T.
    Attached Images
    Last edited by glasslobster; May 6th, 2007 at 01:10 PM. Reason: I needed to update the attached photos.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array kylebce's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by glasslobster View Post
    The pistol is for home protection and I intend to take it to the range and shoot as often as possible
    First- It looks like you've given your due diligence to study and research. Most of us (OK probably just me) buy first and ask questions later.

    If the gun is for home protection, and not going to be used for concealed carry- then I'd go with a full size handgun for capacity and less recoil. If you're carrying- then those three would be good choices.

    I like the Sig 229 the best by far myself. It's metal, great features, and most important- reliable out of the box.

    Note- Kahr is fine but I feel more recoil with their 9mm than my Glock or Sig.
    G-23, 27, 35 (all .40)
    G-29 10mm
    H&K 45c
    Les Baer Thunder Ranch 5"

  4. #3
    Member Array Spiff_P239's Avatar
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    Hands down, I would pick the Sig P229 DAK. I had one that I foolishly let go. To be honest, I realized my mistake before I even shipped it out and gave some serious thought to sending the check back instead. I'm in the process of replacing it with a P229 Elite, though. The DAK trigger system is a pleasure to shoot. It is very smooth and lighter than the double-action pull on the DA/SA models. In 9mm the recoil is almost non-existent due to the aluminum frame and stainless steel slide. I highly recommend it.

  5. #4
    Senior Member Array cagueits's Avatar
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    I voted for the HK, but would suggest you go with the P2000sk model (in case you decide to carry it daily in the future [just imagine having to save again for another gun] + it is less bulky). The Hks have a different way to do reloads (you use your trigger finger to release the magazine vs your tumb - so no need to readjust your grip if you have small hands; also, the slide stop is more user friendly than on the Sig + it is on both sides (the gun is amphibious/jk ).

    If you will eventually consider on installing a laser, go with the 229 - Crimson Trace makes Lasergrips that replace the grip pannels without altering the grip / use of holsters / etc. They don't make a model for HKs right now (however the model is under consideration).

    If I am not mistaken, you can lower the trigger pull to 5-6lbs on both guns with the change of a spring. Do a search on the Sig and Hk boards regarding the subject.

    Have you rented and fired all the models you have in consideration? If not do so and pick the one you are better with.

  6. #5
    Member Array whamonkey's Avatar
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    If double action is not an absolute necessity (and I don't know why it has to be, but it's your gun) then I would add 1 to your list that you owe it to yourself to at least consider: the Glock 19. High capacity, lightweight, absolutely dependable, super easy to field strip, durable and reasonably priced.....a lifetime weapon. It meets all of your criteria but the DA and you will be hard pressed to find it's equal.

    I bought a G23 recently and I carry it IWB......barely prints at all. I am about your size, I run 160-165 with a good build, narrow waist.

    I had a SIG P229 and it was heavy, tried a Kimber Ultra Carry II but didn't trust it....now I found the answer. A G23 is essentially a G19 chambered for .40 SW.

    GREAT GUN.

  7. #6
    Distinguished Member Array fed_wif_a_sig's Avatar
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    For concealed carry I'd go T-9 without question. I've owned and shot each of the pistols you mentioned, and by far the most comfortable and easiest to conceal is the Kahr T9. Personally I own the TP-9 and actually prefer it over the T-9 as it is lighter.

    The only thing you loose is a few rounds.

    Now as far as holsters go, have fun. There just are not many out there that make holsters for the Kahr T9 or TP, but I have found that the weapon fits great into my holsters for my Sig 229.

    I am issued a Sig 229, but now days, I find that when off duty, the TP9 is begaining to be carried more than the Sig is. However once I get my CCO 1911 (or the TP-45) my TP-9 will be retired or given to my wife.
    Steve
    "Respect all ... Fear none!!!

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array Ti Carry's Avatar
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    From reading your post i'd say you have already picked the Sig but a i could be wrong.

    All three are nice choice's but if it were me they would be something like this.

    1) HK
    2) Sig
    3) Kahr

    But I am not sure Kahr would even be in my top three if comparing them like you are. I do think the steel frame Kahrs are good gun's but not sure I would ever pick one over the HK or Sig. For me the HK has the slight edge over the Sig but not enough to make a difference.

    Taking into consideration that this is the only gun you will own and want a long term work horse I'd have to go with the Sig then but just barley.

    ETA - Just for comparison I did choose the HK for the pole.


    Ti
    Last edited by Ti Carry; May 6th, 2007 at 03:19 PM.
    Train and train hard, you might not get a second chance to make a first impression!

    I vote for Monica Lewinsky's Ex-Boyfriend's Wife for President.....Not!

  9. #8
    Distinguished Member Array fed_wif_a_sig's Avatar
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    Ti I can say that after owning Kahr's from their first year of production, I'd easily stack them up against either the Sig or H&K. Its not secret that I put alot of rounds down range, roughly 2000 to 2500 a month, and I have had less problems out of the Kahr than I have had with the Sig. My experience with H&K's is limited to torture testing them for agency useage and simply put, they failed our test. Now that is not to say that they are bad guns, just that they failed our test. When it comes to concealment, the Kahr is easier to conceal due to the grip width and weapon weight. My poly TP-9 has about 5,000 rounds through it and it is accurate and shows no sign problems and the trigger is smoother IMO. If we were talking a duty weapon, carried on the hip exposed, of the three mentioned, I'd go with the Sig, but when concealing it daily, of the three mentioned, hands down, the Kahr would win.

    Ultimatly though it comes down to what feels comfortable in the shooters hand. You will do better with a weapon you are comfortable with. All three of the weapons mentioned are quality firearms and would serve most shooters well.

    All my opinions I have formed are from my personal use of the three weapons, and what I choose to carry when no directed to by agency policy.
    Steve
    "Respect all ... Fear none!!!

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array pogo2's Avatar
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    Sig or H&K, close call

    I would personally go with the Sig P229, simply because I have one (in .40) and find it to be just about perfect for range or home defense use (although it is slightly heavy for carry). But you don't plan to carry, so a little weight in your gun is a good thing. The Sig is reliable, accurate and good looking.

    But if you wanted a polymer frame gun, the H&K P2000 is also about as good as you could do. I have a couple of H&K USPs, which are similar, and they have been absolutely reliable. If carry were a possibility, the P2000 would probably save about 6-8 ounces over the Sig P229. So I could recommend either of these two guns, and the choice is more personal preference than anything.

    I wouldn't get the Kahr because its big advantage of slim profile and smaller dimensions are mainly applicable to carry, which you said you won't be doing. Additionally the Kahr has lower magazine capacity than the other two.

  11. #10
    Member Array glembe's Avatar
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    Based on you preferences, I would pick the Sig, mostly for the DAK trigger. I have tried out a H&K USP and a Kahr P9, not the guns you are looking at, but close. Of the three I found the DAK trigger had the finest trigger. The feel of a DAK is something everyone should check out, I was strongly considering a Sig for the DAK but ended up with a single action.

  12. #11
    whw
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    Sig and HK are a toss up. You couldn't go wrong with either. I'm not a fan of the Kahr for a number of QC issues I've experienced.

    As alternatives, I agree with a previous post that mentioned the Glock 19. I would also like to throw the Sig 239 DAK into the mix. It is a great carry gun.

    whw

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array Ti Carry's Avatar
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    Ti, I can say that after owning Kahr's from their first year of production, I'd easily stack them up against either the Sig or H&K.
    Hey, no problem fed. My experience with them were much different. Like I said the steel frame Kahrs are comperable to the other two IMO. But my response to the poster was due to he is not concerned about CCW because of where he lives and my response was aimed at that, not concealment, concealment shouldn't of even come up. I agree the Kahr is the better concealment choice of the three unless we are talking about an HKsk and it would be very close.


    My experience with H&K's is limited to torture testing them for agency useage and simply put, they failed our test
    .

    Toture test's are unrealistic and that is not not how the majority of gun owners treat there weapons so a toture test doesn't mean much to me. It's cool and all, but how a weapon performs out of the box in normal use conditions is what I go by and HK has done very well in that department.

    I get to train along side LEO's, Fed's and SWAT guy's and a gal or two (i am not a LEO or in law enforcement but am lucky enough to train with these guy's at times) and their answers would be quite different than yours. I'm not saying that you are wrong and they are right, just opinions very and what works for you may not work for others. I've seen Kahrs fail like nobodies business in class to the point one LEO tossed his down range out of frusration (empty of course). I've seen Sig's have a few problems but not near as bad or very often. The only handgun out of the three mentioned above that I haven't seen fail is the HK's. So there is no right answer, just what works best for you or another person.


    Ti
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    I vote for Monica Lewinsky's Ex-Boyfriend's Wife for President.....Not!

  14. #13
    Distinguished Member Array dimmak's Avatar
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    I'd go with Sig and a case of 9mm instead of the HK....
    But if price was the same it'd be a toss up between the Sig or HK....
    "Ray Nagin is a colossal disappointment" - NRA/ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox.


    "...be water, my friend."

  15. #14
    Distinguished Member Array dimmak's Avatar
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    In all seriousness, you advise you're open to polymer....
    Have you considered a G19?
    They are soulless tools, without character and when youve seen one youve seen them all, are strictly utilitarian, ugly as sin to a righteous God, and as such are exactly what a defensive handgun should be....
    Besides they are inexpensive and leave lots of room in the budget for mucho ammo....
    Good luck with your decision and let us know what you decide....
    "Ray Nagin is a colossal disappointment" - NRA/ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox.


    "...be water, my friend."

  16. #15
    Member Array whamonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimmak View Post
    In all seriousness, you advise you're open to polymer....
    Have you considered a G19?
    They are soulless tools, without character and when youve seen one youve seen them all, are strictly utilitarian, ugly as sin to a righteous God, and as such are exactly what a defensive handgun should be....
    Besides they are inexpensive and leave lots of room in the budget for mucho ammo....
    Good luck with your decision and let us know what you decide....
    I beat you to the suggestion

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