.40, .45 or 9mm in a 3" 1911 - Page 3

.40, .45 or 9mm in a 3" 1911

This is a discussion on .40, .45 or 9mm in a 3" 1911 within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; You know, you hear a lot about the undependable 3" 1911. Maybe that was the case when they first came out. I have yet to ...

View Poll Results: Which caliber?

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  • Go with the 9mm

    37 21.76%
  • Upgrade to .45

    95 55.88%
  • Stick with the .40

    38 22.35%
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Thread: .40, .45 or 9mm in a 3" 1911

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array ELCruisr's Avatar
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    You know, you hear a lot about the undependable 3" 1911. Maybe that was the case when they first came out. I have yet to meet someone in the flesh who has experienced all these problems. A rather large local dealer can't get them in fast enough. I asked him how many came back for problems and he figures it's about on par with any other type they sell. He trusts the one he was carrying until his wife fell in love with it.

    Now on the internet you hear all sorts of stories but I really ain't swallowing it. I've seen broken Glocks, Baretta's that would never run even after multiple trips back, bad Springfields, Kimbers, Colts, Rugers, S&W's, revolvers and autos all at various times. Everyone puts out a bad gun now and then. But so far all the people I've seen IN THE FLESH who have a 3" 1911 can't figure out what all the hoopla is about.
    If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.


  2. #32
    Member Array Ping Ping's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELCruisr View Post
    A rather large local dealer can't get them in fast enough. I asked him how many came back for problems and he figures it's about on par with any other type they sell.

    Now on the internet you hear all sorts of stories but I really ain't swallowing it. I've seen broken Glocks, Baretta's that would never run even after multiple trips back, bad Springfields, Kimbers, Colts, Rugers, S&W's, revolvers and autos all at various times. Everyone puts out a bad gun now and then. But so far all the people I've seen IN THE FLESH who have a 3" 1911 can't figure out what all the hoopla is about.
    Ahhh... the voice of reason.

    Well said. +1
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  3. #33
    Senior Member Array cockedlocked01's Avatar
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    In your case, I'd wait & try out the EMP. I personally prefer .45s, but I agree in your case, a 9mm would be better & that EMP sure looks nice.
    "Use human means as though divine ones didn't exist, and divine means as though there were no human ones." Baltasar Gracian
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  4. #34
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    My nerdly solution:

    I just threw together a mathematical equation to help narrow down which might suit you better. I tried to keep it simple, and assume that any round you shot will have sufficient penetration. It really only Takes into account how much tissue would be destroyed over a given period of time. No expansion considered.

    caliber x hits =score
    time in seconds

    -a 9mm works out to .354 caliber
    -only "good" hits count. I'll let you define "good", but be consistent.
    -time should ba as accurate as possible (down to the 2nd decimal) start watch with the first bang, and end with the last.

    let somebody time you empty a several magazines of each gun, (count only firing time, no reloading). Then add up all good hits, multiply it by caliber, then divide this number by your time in seconds.

    example: I shoot 30 rounds in 15 seconds (i have no idea if this is reasonable), but only 24 are "good hits". caliber is 9mm

    so: .354 x 24 = 8.496
    then: 8.496 / 15 = .5664

    this means that I'm punching .5664 inches worth of hole into a target every second with this gun and ammo. Slower times or same time but less hits with a .40 or .45 might be made up for with bigger hole per hit.
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  5. #35
    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    You'd have to use the area of the hole, not the diameter of the round.

    In 9mm that's .098 in^2 per hole
    .40 is .125 in^2 per hole
    .45 is .159 in^2 per hole

    Bear in mind, this is just the cross sectional area of the bullet. The actual hole will be different based on the expansion of the round, the behavior of the target when struck, and overlap. And if we're going this geeky, why not compare the total impact energy delivered to target over the given period of time? Or, the energy potential of each caliber, in a magazine loaded to capacity?

  6. #36
    VIP Member Array sass20485's Avatar
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    I'm with Blackeagle. Do an actual test firing with a timer. That is only real way to know how you handle them. Beyond that you're just guessing about your perceptions. Results could surprise you.

    You are fortunate to have the opportunity to conduct such a test.
    Please let us know the results of your experiment.

    and yes ANY gun can have a malfunction. ANYTHING mechanical is subject to a breakdown.

  7. #37
    Member Array Mike from Texas's Avatar
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    To me the recoil on a .40 is snappier than a .45 and I can recover from a .45 quicker than a .40. So my vote was go with the .45.

    But then again I shoot a 10mm and shoot it well, so what do I know?
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELCruisr View Post
    You know, you hear a lot about the undependable 3" 1911. Maybe that was the case when they first came out. I have yet to meet someone in the flesh who has experienced all these problems. A rather large local dealer can't get them in fast enough. I asked him how many came back for problems and he figures it's about on par with any other type they sell. He trusts the one he was carrying until his wife fell in love with it.

    Now on the internet you hear all sorts of stories but I really ain't swallowing it. I've seen broken Glocks, Baretta's that would never run even after multiple trips back, bad Springfields, Kimbers, Colts, Rugers, S&W's, revolvers and autos all at various times. Everyone puts out a bad gun now and then. But so far all the people I've seen IN THE FLESH who have a 3" 1911 can't figure out what all the hoopla is about.
    Well, actually, both Lima and her husband are having troubles with their small 1911s...if I recall they're both at the shop, and she's looking for a change - hence this whole thread... Granted, that's not "in the flesh," but I'm inclined to believe her.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  9. #39
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jchoo View Post
    You'd have to use the area of the hole, not the diameter of the round.

    In 9mm that's .098 in^2 per hole
    .40 is .125 in^2 per hole
    .45 is .159 in^2 per hole

    Bear in mind, this is just the cross sectional area of the bullet. The actual hole will be different based on the expansion of the round, the behavior of the target when struck, and overlap. And if we're going this geeky, why not compare the total impact energy delivered to target over the given period of time? Or, the energy potential of each caliber, in a magazine loaded to capacity?

    The area and the diameter are directly related. the scores should be proportional whichever you use, as long as you always use the same one.

    I was originally going to figure in energy, but there are a ton of variables that would have to be factored. a .45 has much more energy, but no good if much is leftover as the round passes through the target and is deposited into a wall. So then I'd have to figure in expansion, which I would than have to start figuring specific rounds, did the round hit soft tissue or bone? Muscle or lung tissue? Too much work.

    I just wanted a quick, easy to compare figure. And mostly, I wanted to be a geek while maintaining the state of laziness I've work so hard to achieve today.
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  10. #40
    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LBrombach View Post
    I just wanted a quick, easy to compare figure. And mostly, I wanted to be a geek while maintaining the state of laziness I've work so hard to achieve today.
    I hear that...

    I still think Joules/second is the method we should use.


  11. #41
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    One point twenty one jigawatts?!?!?!
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  12. #42
    VIP Member Array NY27's Avatar
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    Now that was funny.
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  13. #43
    Distinguished Member Array snowdoctor's Avatar
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    you will need less shot recovery with a 45...because they hurt more.
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  14. #44
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    One point twenty one jigawatts?!?!?!
    LOL, read it again, LOL.
    Spend few minutes learning about my journey from Zero to Athlete in this
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  15. #45
    VIP Member Array ELCruisr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    Well, actually, both Lima and her husband are having troubles with their small 1911s...if I recall they're both at the shop, and she's looking for a change - hence this whole thread... Granted, that's not "in the flesh," but I'm inclined to believe her.
    Yes, but I believe in .40 not .45. When I think of 1911 I tend to associate it with .45. I did not say they didn't have any problems, just that I question whether or not they are more problematic than most other guns.

    Many like Kel-Tecs but many have had major issues. Some swear by their Kimbers while others won't touch them. I could go on and on. Yet mention a 3" 1911 and the standard internet inspired wisdom is bad idea, horrible design, how DARE they mess with Saint Brownings perfection, etc, etc.

    I'm just saying that I'm not so sure that current production 3"ers have a higher percentage of problems than many other pistols.
    If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.

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