Stainless rubbing on Stainless
This is a discussion on Stainless rubbing on Stainless within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So I have another thread going about choosing between the commander and full size Kimber raptor, but I just noticed, the full size has a ...
May 9th, 2007 06:37 PM
Stainless rubbing on Stainless
So I have another thread going about choosing between the commander and full size Kimber raptor, but I just noticed, the full size has a stainless barrel and a stainless bushing, this puts stainless running on stainless, which I have read is a bad thing and turned away from stainless guns in the first place... But all there really expensive guns have stainless barrels and bushings, so that makes it seem like its not a big deal, anyone have any input?
May 9th, 2007 07:05 PM
Pirate you opend a can of worms with that question lol .
Now as i understand it some time back ..... way back .... lets talk 60s thro the 70s into the early 80s Stainless on Stainless was a real issue , this is because everyone wanted the advantages of stainless , but did not want to find out abut how the alloys would inter relate and wear , or how to lube them . While the mod 60 S$W chief's special ( the first stainless gun made ) was galling , and seizing up , the true engineers were unaware and makeing a multitude of high speed , and low tolerance pumps and parts in stainless that worked fine . Ruger brought out the security and speed six and announced they had " fixed " the stainless problem " . later every gun was made in stainless . heck even the carbon steel of today would be " stainless of the 70s " Point is , stainless is no better , and no worse than carbon steel today , If you have one alloy of stainless riding against another alloy you may need a high grade of lube to prevent " galling and or seizure " of the parts If so its ok the high grade lube is avalable today , just buy hoppies , remoil , breakfree , ect.. they all upgraded . The point is that the " carbon " steel of today in guns is almost as rust resistant as the stainless of the 60s and 70s . The best " stainless " of today has its quirks which makes it unsuitable for some apps , but rust and galling are not the quirks lol .
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May 9th, 2007 07:51 PM
Awesome, thats great news! Thanks
May 9th, 2007 10:24 PM
When stainless steel of the same type rubs constantly together, it is known as "galling". The stainless literally rubs against each other until it abrades the base material. Think of a snowball traveling down a mountain. It gets bigger and bigger and this "galling" action breaks down the steel to the point that it wads up and causes an interference fit and parts begin to fail.
An example would be a stainless steel slide on a .45 losing the clearance that it needs to work with the frame and eventually it just locks up.
The more resistant that the stainless steel is to rusting, the more it has a tendency to gall. This can be greatly reduced by using stainless steel of two different grades or even of two different heat treating methods. In the early days when stainless first started appearing on guns, some of the softer grades of steel were being used and galling was a serious problem where friction was encountered.
In todays environment, we have learned much and the galling problems on guns are almost non existent. This is because we have learned what grades of stainless act best, and the we have come a long way in heat treating processes even in the last 25 years.
Today, we do things with stainless that were unthinkable then. Our stainless guns are much stronger, fairly rust resistant and usually require little maintenance other than wiping down occasionally.
We are talking metallurgy here. I hope you understand that there are people that do this for a living and it is a constantly evolving science. There is much more to it than we can discuss here. There are many grades of stainless, each having advantages and disadvantages but each unique in its own way.
When stainless guns are built,much though and design go into them. Any stainless parts that touch each other are carefully selected so as to minimize the negatives and that results in guns that are for the most part, free of the problems that we used to see.
Clear as mud?
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May 10th, 2007 02:24 AM
Indeed, thanks for the great replies!
May 10th, 2007 08:32 AM
Fit and lubrication
I don't believe that galling is generally a problem in stainless steel parts moving together as long as the parts fit together well and are kept lubricated. Galling is caused by high points on the parts welding themselves together and then breaking apart, tearing off small pieces of metal on the surface. This leads to a pitted, damaged surface and increased friction.
Here is an all stainless gun, a Colt Gold Cup, that has been running well without damage to its parts for about 20 years.
May 10th, 2007 08:53 AM
Dry Moly spray is a good lube to protect from galling SS.Plus it wont hold dust or dirt.Actual threads and sliding parts can also benefit from anti seize used sparingly. Chuck.
May 10th, 2007 11:17 AM
"Galling" hasn't really been a concern since Ken Lau of Randall Firearms Company first introduced the use of two different types of stainless steel in his pistols, circa 1982.
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May 10th, 2007 12:37 PM
I'll add - to the excellent post given ........ I did discover with my 226 ST that it did not like grease. Maybe a combination of Stainless on Stainless, plus - tight tolerances. Of course, these days no galling.
Grease and some crud gave enough drag to induce malfunctions on std pressure ammo - +P was OK.
I now lube rails with Militec1 or Mobil1 - no problems.
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