May 11th, 2007 06:24 PM
I bought a Kel-Tec P11 about six weeks ago. The only thing I did prior to shooting it was run a patch through the barrel and made sure the slide frame was lubed. First time out I put 120 rounds through it with ZERO failures. No FTF's, no Stovepipes, nada! I've got about 600 rounds through it now and have yet to have any problems. I clean it every time after shooting it and relube the slide. I did add the pinky extension and I put a slip on grip sleeve on it. Those were the only mods done. No Fluff & Buff, just shot it to break it in. I either carry the P11 or a Taurus M85 daily. Well, actually nightly as I work night and I'm usually asleep during the day! I think the problems you here about with Kel-Tec were from earlier production models. I read somewhere that after about the 25000 serial number guns that they reduced the trigger pull from the original 10 Lbs down to 8.5 Lbs and made other improvements also. I've been real happy so far!!
May 11th, 2007 08:12 PM
I've had my NAA Guardian (32cal) since they were first released for sale.. In fact it's an "AA" serial number. Soon after I got it I had to send it back tothe factory for a couple of issues, but it was fixed, free, and I believe they sent me a free magazine for my trouble. It's never missed a beat since then.
I've owned my KelTec P32 for a couple of years. Always reliable, never had a problem.. No "fluffing 'n buffin' necessary.
Both the Guardian and the KelTec are very accurate at self defense range (0-7 yards). I don't shoot any further out than that because these pistols are not designed for target shooting, but as "last ditch, up close and personal" self defense weapons.
My personal opinions on each:
1. NAA is higher quality. Looks like a pistol should. But heavier than the KelTec.
2. KelTec looks like a toy, made from cheap materials, but actually I believe it is quite well made, just suffers from a lack of conventional firearm "beauty" to the eye.
I would recommend either pistol.. My wife likes the KelTec because it's lighter, I like the NAA a bit better because of the way it "feels". Both do an excellent job of what they are designed to do. Try both if possible and buy the one that makes you feel warm and fuzzy. Either would be a great choice IMO.
Having said that, I am in the process of acquiring a new Seecamp LWS.32. Actually I don't expect the Seecamp to be any more accurate, or reliable than the two pistols I already have.. But sometimes you just want the "best" (or perceived best) of something, and the Seecamp has that reputation in the 32cal. pistol market for most folks.
I am interesting in testing all three pistols, head to head, then I'll know for myself which I prefer. If the Seecamp is "as good" (or better) than the NAA and KelTec it will probably be my daily cc mousegun, (my Walther P99c/AS does the duty in a larger pistol) as I have been known to be a name brand snob from time to time.
Keep in mind that if whichever pistol you like best will feed reliability and be self defense accurate you have a winner.. Doesn't matter what name it has on it..
May 11th, 2007 11:02 PM
I was about ready to purchase a Guardian .380 about 1-1/2 years ago. That's when I first published the Pocket Semi-Auto Comparison chart to help me in my search.
At that time the P-3ATs were still very iffy NIB, and being new to gun ownership I didn't want to have to learn how to fix a gun in addition to all the other stuff I was trying to learn.
I didn't want to spend more money than I had to either, that's why I liked the P-3AT. The Guardian at the time was more reliable NIB, that's why I liked the Guardian. The con on the P-3AT was it wasn't reliable, and the cons on the Guardian were it cost a lot more and it was heavy.
I was ready to plunk my money down on the Guardian when providence intervened, Kel-Tec fixed the ramp problem and fixed the extractor problem at about the same time. The newest SG P-3ATs were now very reliable. That turned the tide, I got my P-3AT. One of the best buying decisions I ever made.
Today, I believe they compare like this:
Reliability = (a tie).
Ammo options = (a tie).
Number of rounds = (a tie).
Size = Guardian wins slightly in length - P-3AT wins slightly in width. = (a tie).
Weight = (P-3AT wins handily).
Cost = (P-3AT wins handily).
Appearance = (this is subjective, but I think the Guardian looks nicer).
Factory Options = (Guardian wins handily).
Warranty = (a tie).
Ties = 5
Guardian wins = 2
P-3AT wins = 2
If you want a pretty gun that you can have factory customized and price and weight are not big issues then it's the Guardian.
If you want a light gun that costs little and looks is not high on the priority list then it's the P-3AT.
May 11th, 2007 11:15 PM
You can look until the cows come home, but there is nothing better, cheaper or lighter than the P3AT for a deep cover weapon. Yes it took me a while to warm up to it, but once I did, it made me very happy. The new second generation version is very dependable out of the box. I have 200+ down the pipe with nary one FTE or any other malfunction. It is a great little gun and fun to shoot as well.
May 12th, 2007 08:40 AM
Originally Posted by XDMan
Just a thought..
Don't the "cows come home" every night around suppertime? And if that is true then would you stop looking for a better pistol than the P3AT every night when after the moon comes up?
Sorry, just being a smart-butt...
As I mentioned in my earlier post I have high regard for my P32. I have been put off buying a P3AT because of the bad rep the first series got, but glad to hear the 2nd generation has resolved the teething problems of the first generation.
I was (at one time) hot for a new PF9, but again the early pistols sold were so problemmatic that I was scared off.. That's the bad news, the good news is that I took that money (and more) and bought my Walther P99c/AS.. The P99c/AS is without a doubt the finest 9mm pistol I've ever owned.
I just hate it that KelTec seems to use customers as "beta-testers", and while some folks don't mind that, I don't care to discover what problems a new model has, I want MY pistol, whatever brand, to work right.. Out of the box.
I give KT a "thumbs down" for not doing more thorough testing before selling a new pistol to the public, but I give them a "thumbs up" for having a great warranty and Customer Service reputation.
If a firearm, whatever name brand it might be, is reliable and accurate right out the box then you probably will love it forever.. If you get the next firearm on the assembly line and it's a lemon you probably will bad-mouth the manufacturer forever.. Every manufacturer has its share of lemons, it's just that some manufacturers seem to have a much larger share of that particular fruit..
All just personal opinion of course, no more valid than anybody else's..
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