New Kahr P40 owner, some questions!

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Thread: New Kahr P40 owner, some questions!

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array Ryan H's Avatar
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    Arrow New Kahr P40 owner, some questions!

    First of all I love this pistol. It fits my hand great and from the 150 rounds I've shot through it so far, it seems to be very accurate for it's size. Not much felt recoil either, and the trigger is the best DAO automatic trigger I've ever personally felt.

    Now to my questions. Naturally when not having much experience with handguns, and just shelling out $550 for a new P40, I have a few concerns. They could be nothing, but hey, I'm asking you folks to be sure. :)

    - The slide, how "loose" is it supposed to be when the weapon is cocked, ready to fire, full mag? I'm talking about side to side and vertical play.

    - Sometimes when firing, the weapon will fail to go into full battery after firing. Upon inspection, I find that the extractor has hit the chambered round and stopped, instead of latching on and letting the slide close. A simple, very light tap with my left thumb closes the slide, and leaves me wondering why the much harder force of the recoil spring didn't accomplish this? I'm only 50 rounds away from the break-in, but this problem is a bit persistant and I'm thinking it may stick around. Is this due to "limp wristing"?

    - If I'm not holding the weapon firmly, with my fingers carefully positioned, I sometimes accidentally hit the magazine release under recoil. I'm afraid that in a "SHTF" situation, this could be a real problem. Is there a smaller mag release button or some kind of shave job that can be done? If the button were angled, I think this would be a non-issue.

    Thank you for your time, and I look forward to reading your responses!

    -Ryan H

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  3. #2
    Distinguished Member Array SonofASniper's Avatar
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    I think Sixto has some of the most experience with Kahrs. If he doesn't reply to this thread then send him a pm.

    As far as my thoughts -

    1. I think the gun is of high enough quality that it should be overall tight. I believe they recommend the break in period to actually loosen them a little because they are so tight.

    2. Continue your break in period. Make sure you are not limp wristing, though when limp wristing a poly gun I usually have a stove pipe jam. But it could be a limp wristing issue. Have a friend try shooting it, preferably one who shoots a kahr or a glock. If it consistently repeats on them, you may have a warranty problem and need to take it in.

    3. I am not sure if there are any options like that. You may have to have it shaved, if your heart is set on that. I would personally just train to avoid that happening. Developing the muscle memory will prevent it happening in a SHTF, and because of the small capacity I would not want to make it harder to reload.

    Have fun. I bought a CW40 (the p40's Pa Pa) not to long ago and I am breaking it in right now. I am loving it.
    I will support gun control when you can guarantee all guns are removed from this planet. That includes military and law enforcement. When you can accomplish that, then I will be the last person to lay down my gun. Then I will carry the weapon that replaces the gun.

  4. #3
    Senior Member Array cockedlocked01's Avatar
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    Well, I have the PM9, the little brother of yours. I had similar problems, but it was ammo related. We were using (Briefly) some European c@@P (No offense to Europeans). I also noticed the gun got better after I broke it in. I shot about 50 rounds (Maybe), initially. Then a friend (Retired & a PT rangemaster for us), told me to take 4 boxes & shoot the darn thing at one time, period. Needless, to say, the gun has performed flawless since (We typically use Winchester white box ammo for practice).

    I'm assuming you have large hands & probably thick fingers. I've heard of others having a similar problem, complaining that the gun's too small. I really don't know what to tell you, because I also have relatively large hands (XXL gloves, size 13 fingers), but don't seem to have a problem. It's probably the way you're gripping it.

    I'm not sure about the loosness. Mine moves a little after I broke it in. The gun's definitely tighter than my Glocks. Kahrs definitely need to be broken in. I don't remember it being an issue with my Glocks, though.

    Hope this helps.
    "Use human means as though divine ones didn't exist, and divine means as though there were no human ones." Baltasar Gracian
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  5. #4
    Member Array sevesteen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan H View Post
    Sometimes when firing, the weapon will fail to go into full battery after firing. Upon inspection, I find that the extractor has hit the chambered round and stopped, instead of latching on and letting the slide close. A simple, very light tap with my left thumb closes the slide, and leaves me wondering why the much harder force of the recoil spring didn't accomplish this? I'm only 50 rounds away from the break-in, but this problem is a bit persistant and I'm thinking it may stick around. Is this due to "limp wristing"?
    It's likely to be blamed on limp wristing, but if you shoot other guns well, probably isn't. The rim of the round should slide under the extractor as it is stripped out of the magazine when the slide is back. It shouldn't be behind the round at all.

    - If I'm not holding the weapon firmly, with my fingers carefully positioned, I sometimes accidentally hit the magazine release under recoil. I'm afraid that in a "SHTF" situation, this could be a real problem. Is there a smaller mag release button or some kind of shave job that can be done? If the button were angled, I think this would be a non-issue.
    May not be you. Mine dropped only one of the magazines on firing, and it got worse over time. If it was me hitting the button that hard, it should be with both magazines. (The other magazine eventually worked it's slide lock tab out, so you could only load 2 rounds.)

    Mine was the most disappointing gun I've bought--Tremendous potential, when it worked it was great. Unfortunately, mine got worse over time instead of breaking in, and I gave up after 500 rounds or so.

    I really hope you've got better luck than I do, they can't all be like mine or there wouldn't be a company left.

  6. #5
    Ex Member Array Ryan H's Avatar
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    Thank you guys for the replies. In response:

    SonofASniper,

    What exactly is a stove pipe? Also, I've owned a G22 for a few years now, I get no problems out of it. I get some problems using old ammo every now and then, but nothing as far as the way I hold the pistol, and I can mark just about anything with it at 25 yards.

    cockedlocked01,

    I'm using Winchester white box. I've put most of a 100 round value box through it and a 50 round box before that, along with about 10 Speer Gold Dots that I had just laying around. I mixed them together to see how it would digest them and it did just fine. Its just the same problem with the extractor hitting the rim and not latching, every time.

    As for my hands, they're more or less medium sized. I would say on the low end of "medium", since I don't wear a small glove but they're close. The pistol fits my hands excellent, in fact this is the only automatic I've been able to make any noteworthy marks with when practicing single hand shooting.

    My slide definately loosened up a bit after the rounds that have been through it. Hell, I couldn't even get the 7 round clip to fit in the gun when it was out of the box. It didn't go in until it had about 50 rounds through it.. now it slides home and snaps in with no effort. The slide is definately not as tight as my well-used G22. The G22 was my father's police duty weapon and as an estimate, its likely seen more than 15,000 rounds through it.

    The slide, when grabbed at the muzzle end, can be pulled upwards (using very little force) to the point where there is about a 0.070" gap between the slide and the rail at the front end. I'll gave to grab my gauges and actually check though, but you can see right through the gap and actually see out the other side of the pistol like this. Is this something to be concerned about? Once the slide is pulled back far enough onto the little metal guide rails, it gets tight again and the gap disappears.

  7. #6
    Distinguished Member Array AKsrule's Avatar
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    I don't have a Kahr , but I DO have a bunch of small autos.
    General observations:

    Some play between the slide and frame
    is normal - should not affect function.

    EVERY pistol has it's "favorite" ammo -
    usually a full power commercial load.

    If the MFG owners manual calls for
    ANYTHING to be done - Do it.

    Always try to shoot ANY pistol with a
    Firm and Consistent grip.

    -------
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  8. #7
    Distinguished Member Array SonofASniper's Avatar
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    Stove pipe --

    While some people may have some different definitions, this is what I have always considered a stove pipe jam.



    By limp wristing the weapon, your arm asorbs enough of the recoil force so that the empty shell cannot eject clear of the weapon. Poly framed pistols are the most sensitive to this IMHO, but is usually a result of the shooters technique.

    Check this thread out:

    http://www.combatcarry.com/vbulletin...ad.php?t=24955

    In the last half of this thread, some members discussed the presentations of some different weapons (glock, 1911, etc.) and how that effects the performance. There are techniques that must be learned and employed for some firearms to work properly and maximum performance.




    Is the problem with yours been consistent with all ammo or only one kind? I almost suspect it might be an ammo problem. Someone else here just complained the other day about their PM9 not breaking in right. Sixto suggested to polish the feed ramp and more importantly to feed 200 rounds of just one ammo before changing it up. That person had been firing a variety pack of ammo. I haven't seen if his results have improved yet or not.

    Hope that helps.
    I will support gun control when you can guarantee all guns are removed from this planet. That includes military and law enforcement. When you can accomplish that, then I will be the last person to lay down my gun. Then I will carry the weapon that replaces the gun.

  9. #8
    VIP Member Array NY27's Avatar
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    I also recently picked up a new P40. I had the same problems. I sent it back to Kahr. They have a good customer service dept. They are going to polish the feedramp, replace my recoil spring and possibly give me a new mag. Hopefully when I get it back, the problems will be corrected.

    Good luck.
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  10. #9
    Senior Member Array Shizzlemah's Avatar
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    - Sometimes when firing, the weapon will fail to go into full battery after firing. Upon inspection, I find that the extractor has hit the chambered round and stopped, instead of latching on and letting the slide close. A simple, very light tap with my left thumb closes the slide, and leaves me wondering why the much harder force of the recoil spring didn't accomplish this? I'm only 50 rounds away from the break-in, but this problem is a bit persistant and I'm thinking it may stick around. Is this due to "limp wristing"?
    Note that in many semiauto pistols, the extractor is not meant to snap over the rim of the cartirge. As the cartidge goes into the chamber, it slides up the breechface and *under* the extractor lip.

    That aside, shoot is some more. I got my P9 from someone so distraught with how bad it was after firing 15 rounds. The gun has been 100% for me, never had any failures and is quite accurate.

  11. #10
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    Array SIXTO's Avatar
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    I'd keep shooting it for another 200 rounds or so, use ball ammo.

    Keep the gun clean, I'd suggest running a brush through it every 50 shots or so during the break in.

    Kahrs and other lightweight pistols are very easy to limp wrist, its just a training issue. If I put my Glocks away and come back to them after some time, I almost always will limp wrist them at least once.
    Kahrs are small, so I almost always have a strong grip and really lock them in. I never have this issue with the Kahrs.
    My biggest piece of advice I can give you is to get used to the gun, break it in proper. Kahrs are not made for the new shooter, they can be tough to shoot compared to the mainstream "every mans" type gun. Once you get over all the trade off issues, you will find no better full power micro pistol.

    You can shave down your mag button, I used a emory board from my wifes stash. I also rounded out the slide stop, it would dig into my hand while shooting. Its just one of the tradeoffs in a small gun. There is just less area to put your hands on without it being in the way of something.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  12. #11
    Ex Member Array Ryan H's Avatar
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    I did some more shooting today, and you guys were right, the extractor isn't hitting the back of the case like I thought. I guess after giving it a quick look it just appeared that way. The slide just isn't closing completely and a very light push or tap on the back with my thumb closes it. I can replicate this situation by letting the slide gently close, it stops in the same exact point. I shot two clips through it today at my neighbor's house and it happened once when I was shooting one-handed. I really think its being caused by limp wristing. Here's my theory:

    When limp wristing, not all of the recoil force gets used. I relate this to the slide not opening as fast as it should, therefore not closing as hard/fast as it should since the recoil spring isn't getting compressed enough initially to sling the slide back into place.

    How does that sound? I'm gonna go shoot my last ~30 rounds I have laying around out of it in a little while, and carefully hold the pistol during every shot. I don't think it will malfunction again.

  13. #12
    Ex Member Array Ryan H's Avatar
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    By the way, this only happens when there is a round in the chamber. Not when the round is traveling up the feed ramp, and if there is nothing in the chamber the slide won't hang up. I may try using a different ammo and see if this corrects the situation, I've been shooting WWB.

  14. #13
    Ex Member Array Ryan H's Avatar
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    OK guys, here goes. I gave the pistol a thorough cleaning and took it back out. Out came the grocery bag full of 6+ year old .40 S&W. All kinds of reloads, old factory ammo, etc. All mixed, and almost none of it was Winchester White Box. There were several Speer Gold Dots, Federal Hydra-Shoks, Remington, Speer Lawman, etc. I ran exactly 64 rounds through it. (50 out of the bag, and 14 that the gun / extra clip holds).

    Out of the 64 rounds, 4 of them failed to fire. They were just old, the primers were dented nicely, and I noted that they were all the same type of bullet, old dated looking Remington ammo. Other than the 4 faulty bullets, the weapon functioned 100%. I kept a firm grip the entire time and made well placed shots.

    One thing I hate about old ammo, besides risking having a bullet stuck down the middle of the bore, is that the cleanup is particularly NASTY. Anyway, I guess the pistol just wasn't broken in yet. It seems to work great now!
    Last edited by Ryan H; May 12th, 2007 at 10:11 PM. Reason: Spelling

  15. #14
    Distinguished Member Array SonofASniper's Avatar
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    Good for you. Keep running some good ball ammo through it like sixto said. That pistol should get better and better, as well as your shooting technique with it.
    I will support gun control when you can guarantee all guns are removed from this planet. That includes military and law enforcement. When you can accomplish that, then I will be the last person to lay down my gun. Then I will carry the weapon that replaces the gun.

  16. #15
    Senior Member Array Shizzlemah's Avatar
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    Good, glad to hear it. Keep your wrist straight and keep the lead flyin'

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