Need a small/pocket carry pistol.
This is a discussion on Need a small/pocket carry pistol. within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Jchoo
Can you put on your gun and gear, conceal it as you normally do, and have someone take photos? Sometimes ...
May 24th, 2007 10:03 PM
Originally Posted by Jchoo
You are probably the only person who notices.
I'm 3"shorter and 30# lighter than you and I carry an M&P40c every day. IWB about 5:00 tucked or untucked and my wife, who knows what to look for, has to ask if I'm carrying.
A good Gun belt and a quality holster are really the answer to most concealment issues.
You're obviously not going to wear skin-tight jeans and a muscle shirt. But you don't have to "urban up" either.
That being said, I "luvmy40", comparable in size to the Glock 27 and American made.
May 24th, 2007 10:19 PM
I just got back from the store again with mah dad. I wanted to get his opinion and he liked both the PPK/s and the Airweight (forgot the number) 38special revolver. :/ After talking to the night-shift guy at the store who carries that same revolver when he can't carry his .45 it kinda grew on me. The 38sp has more stopping power than the ppk.
BUUUT, it only has 5 rounds + its not as flat (concealable) as the PPK/S. He also mentioned that the .380 rounds aren't cheap (but when I priced them the .38sp aren't really cheap either).
The kahrs still look pretty good to me. I just need to find the right price I guess.
--easiest to conceal
--safety/de-cocker (something I like in a gun that i will be carrying so close to my boys ;) )
--holds 8 + 1
--Jame's Bond gun ;)
--weakest round .380
--the ammo is kinda pricey
S&W Airweight .38special Pros:
--bigger round than the .380 with okay stopping power
--un-jammable (for the most part)
--designed specifically as a pocket pistol(to operate from within a pocket)
--only 5 rounds + much longer reload time
--slightly harder to conceal because of the revolver (recognizable shape)
--also pricey ammo
Kahr 9mm/.40 Pros:
--bigger rounds with much better "stopping power"
--higher capacity than the others
--*slightly* bigger than the other 2
Last edited by kavity; May 24th, 2007 at 11:04 PM.
May 25th, 2007 02:14 AM
Kavity, sorry I didn't get back to you right away....been out and about!
For most people, a little Kel Tec P3AT is probably the perfect CCW IF you trust the pistol and the round to do what needs to be done. I don't.
The J frame S&W is a step up in power from a .380. (And no, I don't care if someone thinks a 90 grain .380 bullet is the equal of a 135 grain +P. It's often said that the .380 is the equivalent of the .38 Special. I say, Bull.)
Sometimes I throw my S&W 638 Airweight in my pocket to run down to the store, with a speed strip in my other pocket. Despite the cylinder, it doesn't print NEARLY as much as you would think. The rounded shape of the revolver helps.
If you carry a J frame in a pancake holster on a belt, no one will know you have a gun. They are VERY light, making carrying one very comfortable. I've found that I don't like carrying any pistol inside the waistband, but a J frame or small semiauto will disappear in a good pancake holster, with your belt run around the outside of the holster to pull it in close. Under a shirt, the curved handle of the J frame disappears.
I imagine a Ruger SP101 .357 magnum would conceal quite well, too. There are probably not a lot of situations that a 5 shot .357 magnum can't get you out of, and an SP101 would conceal in a pancake holster with a 3" barrel just as easily as the typical 2" snub barrel, giving you better velocity and less muzzle flash.
The 9mm is another step up from the .38 Special. Some people just don't feel comfortable with 5 shots and a slow reload, and that's fine. I'm a police officer, and I would much rather have more capacity, since I may be forced to act in a situation that a civilian could avoid altogether. The Glock 26 or S&W M&P Compact 9 both have short grips that are fairly easy to conceal under a shirt.
I usually carry a Glock 27 (.40) off duty, in a Desantis Speed Scabbard (pancake style 3 slot holster) with my belt ran around the outside of the holster. I like the .40 caliber, but you would be no less well armed with a Glock 26 in 9mm. Same frame, same size. I carry it under an untucked shirt, and it doesn't print. I've even pocket carried the Glock 27 in a pair of cargo shorts with loose pockets, and it works. Again, your perception of your gun "printing" is probably actually a lot different than what people notice.
The baby Glocks are the lightest pistols in real fight-stopping calibers. The grips are about the shortest on the market, and the grip is generally the hardest part of a CCW pistol to conceal. Parts are cheap, the guns are dead bang reliable, and there is a world of accessories for them. You can use the mags from the medium and full sized Glocks, as well.
There are other fine pistols that are concealable in a good OWB holster. I've owned and carried a S&W Compact M&P 40, S&W 4053, Glock 26 and a Springfield XD40 subcompact. All good guns, all will conceal if you are willing to dress for it. Body shape and size have a lot to do with what you can and can't effectively conceal.
I am currently looking for a good used S&W 3953 9mm. I've owned a 4053, which is the .40 S&W equivalent, and you would be amazed how easy it is to conceal these fine single-stack pistols. They are DAO, but you can get the DA/SA models (3913 and 4013). I've seen these pistols on Gunbroker for around $350-$400 in good shape, usually with 2 or 3 mags. They weigh about 24 ounces. For comparison, a Glock 27 weighs about 19 ounces, and a S&W M&P Compact weighs about 21 oz, I think.
Hope this helps a little!
Slow is smooth.....smooth is fast.
May 25th, 2007 02:55 AM
The PPK/S isn't in the flier that the shop puts online this month, I'll take a look next time I go to the shop though, which shouldn't be too long.
Originally Posted by kavity
Fortes Fortuna Juvat
Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor
May 25th, 2007 04:14 AM
I have a Kahr MK9. I pocket carry in a High Noon pocket holster. I like it.
"There is no such thing as too much ammo. Unless you're swimming!"
May 25th, 2007 09:04 AM
My main carry is a 4" 1911. For deep concealment it's a P3AT (.380) this also doubles as a BUG. It was noticeably smaller than the KT 9mm. I elected to give up power to augment conceal ability. It's all what you feel is right for your needs.
I'm on the lookout for a Rourbach (spelling?) it has both the power and the small size. Downside is that it's pricey.
Seecamp's are also nice small guns.
Best of luck finding what's right for you.
May 25th, 2007 03:59 PM
You can't go wrong with a S&W 642 in a Robert Mika Pocket Holster. www.mikaspocketholsters.com.
In reference to the PPK or PPK/S I purchased two when I was stationed in Germany many years ago. They are both made in ULM Germany. The S&W PPK's are known for ammo feeding problems with certain ammo.
I think if you plan to carry all the time the S&W 642 w/ the mika holster is the was to go.
May 25th, 2007 04:12 PM
I just wanted to add some pictures to my original post but I can't edit for some reason.
Anyway, here are some shots of my concealment.(?)
Now I usually wouldn't wear a shirt as snug as the Polo to go out and about but I put it in here just to show that it isn't as obvious as it feels to you.
May 25th, 2007 07:23 PM
I gave my new to me Kahr MK40 Stainless a proper shakedown today after work, running 150 rounds Target FMJ, Taps HP & Ranger JHP through it. I can't say enough about how great this little gun shoots. Being all steel its heavy for its size but with a gun this small that can be a good thing. I'd definitely give one a once over when your shopping around.
May 25th, 2007 08:22 PM
1 or 2 votes for Kel Tec here... I always carry a P3AT (380) w/a 32NAA conversion, but the 380 is still a good choice concidering the size. During summer months I carry a KT P40 (40S&W version of the P11).
These pistols aren't the the most comfortable to shoot but the P3AT weight is under 8oz unloaded and a locked breeched pistol, I for one am not a fan of blow-back models listed above. the P 11/40 is lighter loaded than an empty G26/27, not to mention thinner... enough so that after running 400 trouble free rnds through the P40 I sold my thick and heavy G27.
You earlier stated that you couldn't release the slide lock on a P11. That is because it is a lock and not a release, that is how the pistol was designed. Most (I hope) would agree that fine motor skills hit the door under high stress situations, leaving your best options to release the slide w/your weak hand.
Shopping is half the fun, good luck.
Get the U.N. out of the U.S.
Get the U.S. out of the U.N.
May 26th, 2007 12:33 AM
I carry a G26 in front pocket holster in slacks, jeans, shorts every day. I wear relaxed fit pants and it's still a full pocket, but thats still the most comfortable way for me to conceal it. I just purchased a kel tec 380 and It's so light and small I don't even know it's in my pocket most of the time.
Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything
May 28th, 2007 11:11 PM
I would advise you to shoot a Kel-Tec before buying. The lousy triggers are painful as heck to keep pulling past 3-4 shots. They're narrow - designed wrong, and it's a BIG pull all the way back.
The hurt the bejeez outta many people's fingers.
May 28th, 2007 11:31 PM
Hmmm...Bible or CCW...I vote the Bible.
Originally Posted by jarhead79
I lucked out I guess...my trigger is long but smoooooooth.
Last edited by Rbrown777; May 28th, 2007 at 11:43 PM.
Reason: Added trigger comment
May 28th, 2007 11:51 PM
Yeah, I know all about how lousy the .380 is. I shoot mine a lot. I know its limitations, but I also know its capabilities. Anything short of attack of the zombies, and I will prevail!
"If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan
May 29th, 2007 07:26 AM
If you are planning to "Pocket Carry" I would suggest a S&W J-Frame Revolver.
The wheelgun is easier to draw out of the pocket and is a "tad" more concealable because of the rounded shape. A "Pocket Pistol, like my Kahr PM9, looks like a pistol when in my pocket.
With all the "trash" that a "Pocket Gun" collects I would give the nod to the J-Frame. One week of pocket carry and I need to clean my gun due to all the lint and stuff that guns in the pocket attract. Yes, I use a holster. I would hate to have my "Pocket Pistol" malfunction on me when I needed it most due to lint or something. Ankle carriers beware too, this is another location that attracts a lot of dirt to a gun as well.
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