Question on Kimber Ultra CDP II Carrying

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Thread: Question on Kimber Ultra CDP II Carrying

  1. #1
    Member Array harley91's Avatar
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    Unhappy Question on Kimber Ultra CDP II Carrying

    Just got it the other day but have a question. Hope you guys can help. I am a new CCW and know that always carry your weapon ready to fire, which means to me with a round in the chamber, but after reading Kimber's Owners Manual it states never to carry the pistol loaded. This is what the manual says:

    Safe Carrying Condition: Never carry this pistol cocked, loaded and ready to fire as this practice could easily result in an unintentional discharge. Do not carry a loaded gun with a live round in the chamber while walking, running or crossing any obstacle, where there is any possiblity of slipping or falling as this could lead to a possible unintentional discharge.

    So now I am confused, is it safe to carry this pistol loaded or not? Any help is appreciated.
    Harley 91
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    They are talking about carrying it in your hand where tripping could cause you to accidentally pull the trigger or drop the gun. They have to put that stuff in their so that idiots who like to walk around with their gun in their hands to show it off with the safety off don't shoot themselves and then sue because no one told them not to play with a loaded gun.

    When we say "carry" we mean in a holster, safe from manipulation, and in the possession of a safe, confident and well-trained individual. When the manual says "carry" they mean walking around with it just in your hands.

    1911s have been carried cocked and locked for the last 100 years.

    I carried my own Kimber Ultra CDP the other day cocked and unlocked. For two hours I walked around with the thumb safety off, a round in the chamber and the hammer back. My butt is still in one piece, my sear is still good.

    Your gun is not going to go off unless you make it.
    Last edited by limatunes; May 25th, 2007 at 09:59 AM.

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Unsafe? Not if you do it right, with a great holster/belt, no futzing with the gun while carrying, are trained on handling that format correctly (as with anything else).

    Here's an article about the Tacoma, WA, police carrying the Kimber Pro Carry II cocked and locked (aka, Condition 1): clickie.

    Here's an overview of the "conditions" for carrying a 1911, with the attendant pros/cons: clickie.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
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    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
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    Cocked and locked in a top-knotch holster, the safest and most effective way to carry the 1911.

    Cheers,
    Rod
    "We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters

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    Quote Originally Posted by harley91 View Post
    Just got it the other day but have a question. Hope you guys can help. I am a new CCW and know that always carry your weapon ready to fire, which means to me with a round in the chamber, but after reading Kimber's Owners Manual it states never to carry the pistol loaded. This is what the manual says:

    Safe Carrying Condition: Never carry this pistol cocked, loaded and ready to fire as this practice could easily result in an unintentional discharge. Do not carry a loaded gun with a live round in the chamber while walking, running or crossing any obstacle, where there is any possiblity of slipping or falling as this could lead to a possible unintentional discharge.

    So now I am confused, is it safe to carry this pistol loaded or not? Any help is appreciated.
    That's called CYA in legal speak. The only way I carry a 1911 is C&L period.

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    Member Array dls56's Avatar
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    Cocked and locked. You'll get used to it. Use caution and it will become second nature to you.

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    I think possibly the biggest danger to carrying cocked and locked would occur if you had to draw under condition RED (combat) and you neglected to wipe the safety off with your thumb. That's why muscle memory and good training are necessary. That's also one good reason to participate in IDPA matches. You get to practice drawing a loaded weapon from a concealed holster and shoot for score v time. Plus many of the scenarios are rooted in reality as much as is safely possible.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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    Senior Member Array tegemu's Avatar
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    The operators manual has to say that for product liability purposes. For self defense, which the manual is not speaking about, the only logical and the safest way to carry is Cond. 1, or Cocked and Locked. I'd bet a dollar to a donut that, privately, everyone at Kimber would tell you the same thing. I carry a 1911 all of the time and always Cond 1 with no adverse effects. 95% of the time it's a Kimber Ultra Carry II (A brother to your pistol) in a pocket holster.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence in their behalf. - George Orwell

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    Having read the preceding posts, all I have to say is ditto to all of them, especially legal CY6:00 stuff, and muscle memory developed over many, many repetitions of practice to solve the unlocking of the safety.

    Ultra CDP II, Milt Sparks IWB VM-II
    "Our Constitution was made only for a religious and moral people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other." --- John Adams
    (1735-1826) Founding Father, 2nd US President
    Source: Oct. 11, 1798; Address to the military

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    I don't own a 1911 and have never carried or fired one. I am at least passingly familiar with their function, though.

    I find myself wondering if a determined anti-gun, anti-self-defense prosecutor might sift through the manual of the gun you used to shoot someone, looking to twist anything to suit his agenda. This might mean that he puts you on the stand and asks you, even though it's irrelevant, why you were carrying your gun "in a manner that is in direct violation of the safety rules that the manufacturer recommends."

    Of course, you and your lawyer could probably dig up evidence to support your assertion that it was a safe and effective way to be carrying -- probably by locating police departments that authorize it or have authorized it in the past -- but by then the damage might have been done, in the eyes of the jury, and you'll be viewed as a safety rule breaker.

    I just prefer to carry a GLOCK.

  12. #11
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by harley91 View Post
    Just got it the other day but have a question. Hope you guys can help. I am a new CCW and know that always carry your weapon ready to fire, which means to me with a round in the chamber, but after reading Kimber's Owners Manual it states never to carry the pistol loaded. This is what the manual says:

    Safe Carrying Condition: Never carry this pistol cocked, loaded and ready to fire as this practice could easily result in an unintentional discharge. Do not carry a loaded gun with a live round in the chamber while walking, running or crossing any obstacle, where there is any possiblity of slipping or falling as this could lead to a possible unintentional discharge.

    So now I am confused, is it safe to carry this pistol loaded or not? Any help is appreciated.

    The manual also states that the only field stripping that should be done is removing slide and barrel.

    But after you've shot about 1000 rounds you really should clean the internals of the slide and frame CONTRARY to WHAT the MANUAL TELLS YOU.

    Never carry this pistol cocked, loaded and ready to fire as this practice could easily result in an unintentional discharge.
    That's from page 6 in my manual. Please note that above it says nothing about the thumb safety being engaged. Cocked and ready to fire means hammer back and thumb safety off.

    Hammer cocked and safety off IS NOT THE WAY TO CARRY.

    See HERE for militray requirements of how the 1911 was to be carried.


    The following is from the above manual :

    The slide and hammer being thus positively locked, the pistol may be carried safely at full cock and it is only necessary to press down the safety lock (which is located within easy reach of the thumb) when raising the pistol to the firing position.

    Also:

    l. In campaign, when early use of the pistol is not fore- seen, it should be carried with a fully loaded magazine in the socket, chamber empty, hammer down. When early use of the pistol is probable, It should be carried loaded and locked in the holster or hand. In campaign, extra magazines should be carried fully loaded.

    So in short, cocked and locked is good to go. No worries
    Last edited by JD; May 26th, 2007 at 02:55 PM. Reason: Spelling

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