Shooting technique with small semi autos

This is a discussion on Shooting technique with small semi autos within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have done a ton of revovler shooting over the years but my experience with semi autos is much less, especially compacts. I recently have ...

Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Shooting technique with small semi autos

  1. #1
    Member Array larrupin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    104

    Shooting technique with small semi autos

    I have done a ton of revovler shooting over the years but my experience with semi autos is much less, especially compacts.

    I recently have acquired a Kahr cw9, taurus milpro 9, Kel tec p11 and am having a new experience when I go shooting..

    Today I first put about 60 rounds thru the Kel tec, which as you know is a very light 9mm and has significant recoil, but really seems pretty managable to me. I then went on to shoot my other two pistols and when I was trying to shoot with them at 25 yards I noticed having considerable tremor in my right hand (I am right handed). I was still able to keep all rounds in an 8" bull at 25 yards with Kahr and Taurus, but it really took more concentration that usual with my right hand shaking.

    I am assuming that my problem is probably an overly hard grip on the pistol trying to control recoil but I thought I would ask here to see what kind of input I could get from the more experienced semi shooters on the board.

    Thanks for any and all feedback, bring it on, I want to learn and you ain't gonna hurt my feelings.
    Last edited by larrupin; May 28th, 2007 at 11:43 AM.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    Administrator
    Array QKShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Off Of The X
    Posts
    35,063
    Small semi-autos should have a quite firm grip.
    Search Ebay for GRIPMASTER & buy a red one.
    With use that should solve your problem in less than a month.
    The Gripmaster is one of the best things you can buy to improve your overall shooting.

    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  4. #3
    Senior Member Array incredipete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    643
    I've found with my Kel-Tek, I have to loosen up my grip... and the sights are TERRIBLE. You're better off just eyeballing it with that thing. With the mini Glock, I hold on tight. The sights are good on it.

    I have a specific routine with the baby autos... I start at about 7 feet... I shoot 50 or so rounds. I move it back to 12 feet, then 18, then 25, etc. I've found that by the time I get it back to a decent combat distance, I've found the sweet spot.

    It sounds to me like you're anticipating the recoil too much.
    Gun Control means never having to say "I missed you."

    - Glock 27 (.40)
    - Kel-Tec p3at (.380)
    - Beretta 96FS (.40)
    - Smith & Wesson 5906 (9mm)

  5. #4
    Member Array dls56's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    132
    I have Kel Tec in .380 it's a great conceal gun, I only shoot it enough to stay proficient. Not a range gun by any measure.
    Really need to hang on to these small guns but when you do they can be surprisingly accurate.

  6. #5
    Member Array Sam Douthit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Bowdon, GA
    Posts
    181
    I have read an article by Ayoob that a firm grip is required to shoot accuratly. This puzzles me because I was taught to not hold too tightly because it could cause tremors. I suppose you have to try it and compromise. It is a vague instruction anyway. The trigger squeeze is quite important as it will move the hits right and left based on how you pull the trigger. Cocking the wrist is a problem also. I love the movies that show gang bangers holding the gun sideways. I hope this catches on with the BGs.
    Sambo74
    SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    5,133
    I second QK's suggestion on the gripmaster . It is a fantastic tool to build up your grip selectivly so that not only can you build a good firm grip that will not trimble , but at the same time build up your trigger finger so you will have a smoother pull .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  8. #7
    Member Array sjp2452's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    209
    Tremors are often caused by mild shock...the revolver shooting that you've done--how much recoil are your hands used to taking? Really small autos in significant calibers can deliver very sharp blows to your hand--perhaps sharper (not harder, just sharper) than you're used to. Give it some time, and gripmaster may be a good idea too... though I haven't used one before.

  9. #8
    Member Array larrupin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    104
    QK, I am thinking you are on to something. At first glance I wasnt sure because my grip strength is in fact very good, but as I was reading the responses and thinking about it I think my grip endurance is probably not that great, in other words if I am exerting max force, after 15 min or so I had exhausted my grip due to lack of endurance training.

    As mentioned above I might be anticipating recoil but my close in groups (7-10yds) were very tight with all 3 guns (2-3", no flyers,). It was only towards the end of my shooting session out at 25yds where I was opening up more than I like.

    sjp2452, you are right about difference in effect, revolver you let wrist and arm absorb recoil, revolver (especially SA which I shoot alot) is made to roll up in your grip, not pust straight back.

    Thanks for all the input!

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    5,133
    As mentioned above I might be anticipating recoil
    Since you did not mention a shift in impact , only the group opening up dramaticly i dobut it . Were you anticipating recoil your groups would tend to be Low or Low left ( assuming your right handed ) .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Array blueyedevil's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    615
    The old school alternative to the "gripmaster" is the "newspaper", just take the time to crumple up each sheet of newspaper one-handed, alternating hands from your daily rag, results are the same.

  12. #11
    Assistant Administrator
    Array P95Carry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    South West PA
    Posts
    25,482
    Or - a cheap excercizer is a tennis ball!!

    Small semi's inevitably suffer from both lighter weight and - much smaller grip size/area.

    I usually suggest a very firm grip, towards ''white knuckle'' but back off from that just a bit so as to preclude any serious tremor. A two handed grip is IMO very desirable as the weak hand can lend huge support and control - but try not to wrap weak forefinger around front of trigger guard - that can lead to shots going left. I consider it a MUST to practice single handed shooting as well.

    Some of the problems I find includes ''torquing'' as well as recoil rise .... all needing strong controlled grip. The application of skate-board tape can help too - particularly front and back strap area - plus an alternative - get the small Hogue Handall and cut it down to suit .... this allows the grips to fill the hand better.

    Some folks do not like the potential for gripping where it is not wanted - such as inside pocket .......... but a small dusting of talcum can reduce that and still leave a good grip feel.

    Much experiment can be needed but practice is finally the way to go.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array aus71383's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    2,543
    I was taught to shoot pistols with a tight-as-you-can-doesn't-matter-if-it-shakes-a-little grip. Since then I have found that a "firm handshake" grip works well for me.

    +1 sjp2454 (i think)

    I have found that when firing full power loads from my .44 magnum I will fatigue after a box or so of ammo. There is nothing wrong with this, and you will get used to it with time. That light weight gun is battering your hand - you might not feel it much but a lot of shock is being transmitted to your muscles and they get tired. Holding an 8" group at 25 yards with a mouse gun and a tired grip tells me you're fine. But the more you shoot it the longer you'll last. I've never tried grip exercises, but I do know that shooting more helps. JMO

    Austin

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    5,133
    Aus Respectfully i will mention that a full bore ( from 9mm up ) mouse gun is actualy harder to shoot than a 4" .44 mag s&w 29 is . as mentioned with a revolver you can allow the gun to recoil , and soak it up on the inertia so to speak . With a " micro" auto you have to lock the frame in place and allow the action to work against the support you provide . With full sized autos you have enough " inertial mass " in both the frame and slide that it overcomes a lot of deficits . with the micro guns you have none of that , you dont have the frame mass to hold steady while the slide recoils , and also you dont have the slide mass to carry thro on lockup if the frame wiggles . If you shoot a micro auto you need to develop a " ransom rest " grip and stance ( i am not saying two hands all the time nor lobbying for a specific stance , just lock the gun up no matter how you do it ) in order for it to function reliably . lots of lube helps also . If you can absolutly lock a wrist under all conditions then a micro is a fine gun if you take care of it . If not , then its not the gun for you . My bride is 115 lbs soaking wet with an anvil in one pocket , she shoots a detonics micro fine and has for years , i have a buddy who scales out at 320 who cannot even shoot a glock 17 . Micros take a bit more work and practice to shoot .. but if you learn them are just as reliable as any gun . If you want to grab and go tho you will be better served without a micro auto .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  15. #14
    Senior Member Array gddyup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Derry, NH
    Posts
    988
    Excersise is always a great option and improving grip strength can never hurt. I think more practice and rounds through those smaller handguns will help iron out most of your issues though.
    Firefighter/EMT
    "You've never lived until you've almost died. For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected will never know" - T.R.

    <----My LT was unhappy that I did not have my PASS-Tag at that fire. But I found the body so he said he would overlook it. :)

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Are S&W semi autos good guns now?
    By PAcanis in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 74
    Last Post: November 14th, 2010, 08:28 AM
  2. Safety Advisory for .17 HMR Semi-Autos
    By Lewis128 in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: December 15th, 2009, 09:28 AM
  3. Colored Dots on Ruger Semi Autos
    By Warmon in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: November 19th, 2009, 06:48 PM
  4. New to CCW J-Frame or Small Semi-Auto
    By markp in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: March 1st, 2007, 09:39 PM
  5. Proposed BATFE rules will make your semi-autos NFA
    By armoredman in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: April 17th, 2005, 10:56 PM

Search tags for this page

hands shake when shooting p11
,
hands shake when shooting small pistol
,

shooting small autos

Click on a term to search for related topics.