June 10th, 2007 09:44 PM
IMO, the "right" carry weapon is the one that best fits the needs of the carrier, and there are as many reasons as the stars for why a given match isn't a very good one.
What need do others or I have for a $1,000 when the above pistols work and work well for half of the Sig’s price?
For me, the CZ P01 fits the bill nicely. I require the "right" balance, and only a few do that for me. I have smaller hands, so the grip's circumference is crucial. As well, I require it to point naturally, and that depends on how I hold the gun. I've thought some pretty strange units were perfect, at least as compared to the "popular" gun press and other peoples' opinions. It must be relatively light, which for me is somewhere south of 30oz for a gun carried daily. And it must have >= 10rds capacity. For me, that rules out a lot of the 1911 crowd, even if I could shoot them as accurately as the CZ P01. Its only downside is: thickness. If it were as thin as the Kahr 9mm carry units, it would truly be perfect. Am looking to get a second one and tune it the same way.
Then again, The P01 cost over $500 new, plus $500 in enhancements that included Trijicon night sights, custom Omega grips, action/trigger job, tuning, springs. Plus my hunt for the perfect ammo took ~750rds of premium ammo of all flavors and another 2500rds of range ammo for a good break-in thrashing. It's perfect, now. As it stands now, this specific gun has more than $1K into it. But I'd stack up its performance against any other gun out there, tuned as it is. I know some folks with 6-shooters and 1911's who can wax my tail at a combat shooting course. Still, it works for me ... and for my own carry weapon, that's all that matters.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
June 10th, 2007 10:32 PM
I just cannot understand why some people seem to have a problem with other people spending their own hard earned money to buy whatever price firearm they want to own for their own personal use to use it however they want to use it.?
It does not bother me a bit if somebody I don't know spends 3 Grand for a custom firearm and skids it down a concrete sidewalk to break it in.
June 10th, 2007 11:05 PM
I carry a used SA Mil-Spec now but if I could afford it I'd be packin' a Les Baer TRS, Ed Brown Cobra Carry or Wilson Combat SDS ... and I wouldn't turn down a Nighthawk Custom either. I'm happy for anyone who can afford to own those beauties, it's just not in my budget
June 10th, 2007 11:12 PM
Who says it has to be about "need"?
How many people "need" an SUV? Now that I have retired more or less, I don't need mine anymore. Will I get rid of it? Heck no! I have customized and re-engineered so much stuff on that thing I don't see ever replacing it. Why? I trust it. I know what it is capable of.
Did I need to spend as much as I did on my personal weapons? Nope. But I know what they are capable of, and, I trust them.
June 10th, 2007 11:28 PM
June 11th, 2007 01:04 AM
same reason I'm willing to spend $100 or more for a knife, or a flashlight, and my co-workers all thought i was nuts...
it's about what you're comfortable with, and what you're willing to trust your life to.
If you can do it with $200.00 firearm great, if it means you spend 2500 on it, so be it. It's a personal choice!
Firefighter / EMT - Always Ready. Ever Willing.
~Never do anything that you don't want to have to explain to the paramedics...~
June 11th, 2007 02:59 AM
What I am saying is small 1911s are iffy and expensive. There are many other small pistols that cost half of the small 1911's price and they work from the get go. Regards, Richard
June 11th, 2007 03:16 AM
Guns are tools, I buy a lot of tools, my primary consideration is that they work well, don't let me down and last a while.
I buy Milwaukee, Makita, Bosch, De Walt type tools. Sure Festool make slightly better stuff but they cost 2 or 3 times as much. Sure Ryobi make cheaper tools, but they don't hold up on the job.
Same with guns, I don't need an STI or a Hi Point. I need a Glock or XD.
I'm just a regular guy and my 'tools' just need to work.
June 11th, 2007 05:57 AM
Not necessarily so. My GI Micro walked out the door for $500. I've had a trigger job done by a friend who is a darn fine gun smith (cost $0), I made my own custom grips (I prefer smooth not checkered), I did my own feed ramp polishing. While not everyone can pull this off as cheap as I did it was great for me. I have a reliable, well tuned 3" 1911 with a fantastic trigger and none of the "cheaper" guns I've tried comes close on that trigger. For me good, accurate shooting is about trigger control and I hate crappy triggers. Shooting with trifocals is challenge enough! As for reliability, it runs just fine thank you!
Originally Posted by richardoldfield
As to small 1911's being iffy then by the same token SIG's are iffy, Colt's are iffy, SA's are all iffy, Kahr's are iffy and KelTec's are a nightmare and on and on. Everyone puts out guns now and then that need to be worked on, just reality these days. The small 1911's got a bad rap in the early days when they had some issues to be worked out. The internet has magnified these incidents to epic proportions. Truth is I have met so many people in person who use them regularly and love their reliability, shootability and carryability that I've stopped listening to all the hype.
By the same token I've met people who have had so many Glock failures they consider them crap. Same goes for every other maker you can name. Yet Glocks are considered perfection by many, right? Tell that to the shooter I know who had three frame failures on the first mag in a row using standard range ammo. Not Kabooms, just a frame coming apart after a few rounds of .40.
Truth is we are all different and have different preferences and abilities. Some like Chevys, some Fords, others Kias, etc. Me I like old Land Cruisers (Mine was a 71) and 1911's, even small ones to do our work....
If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.
June 11th, 2007 06:36 AM
While it probably isn't "just you" there must be enough people that don't agree with you to buy these products or the companies would not make them.
Originally Posted by richardoldfield
Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.
June 11th, 2007 07:10 AM
I thought that the stipulation made here was that the lower priced guns do the same thing as the higher priced one: they fire the same caliber, just as reliably, probably just about as accurately (we're not talking competition guns, we're talking defense guns).
Originally Posted by Blackeagle
My concern would be quality of workmanship, and quality of parts manufacture. Those two things can affect whether the pistol will fire when you need it to. I don't want some cheapo plastic part inside the gun to fracture during a defensive use. Many times, you do get what you pay for, and if you skimp, it could really cost you -- more than money, I mean.
That's why I carry a GLOCK. Middle-of-the-road price, top-of-the-line reliability. If everything else about the gun is middle-of-the-road, that's fine with me. Just as long as it works and will last a long time.
June 11th, 2007 07:32 AM
You and me both! I'd settle for $2500.
Originally Posted by Thumper
Training means learning the rules. Experience means learning the exceptions.
June 11th, 2007 08:17 AM
There is actually no inherent reason why a stubby .45 cannot be completely reliable. It's just that it's much more critical that everything be fit correctly.
- the frame ramp needs to be smooth
- the extractor needs to be PERFECTLY tuned
- the breech face needs to be smooth
- The ejection port needs to be opened up
- The slide and frame rails need to be smooth
- A bushing-less barrel sure helps
- the magazines need to be high quality
- there needs to be a smooth transition from the frame ramp into the barrel chamber
- the shooter needs to be mindful of not "limp wristing"
You get the general idea I'm sure. A chopped .45 can be 100% reliable. It's just more difficult to get that way.
Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ
June 11th, 2007 09:03 AM
"As to small 1911's being iffy then by the same token SIG's are iffy, Colt's are iffy, SA's are all iffy, Kahr's are iffy and KelTec's are a nightmare and on and on. Everyone puts out guns now and then that need to be worked on, just reality these days."
I have never had a bobble with any of my Sigs (P220, P226, P228, P239, or P245).
"Colt's are iffy, SA's are all iffy,..", in regard to these brands most Colts and SAs are 1911s and they may have break in problems.
Kahrs come with factory advice not to use them for defense until you have fired 200 rounds, I have followed this advice and I have never had a malfi.
Kel-Tecs cost a fraction of $1,000 and they are known to need a "fluff and buff" but Kel-Tec offers fantastic customer service if their product does not work.
June 11th, 2007 10:17 AM
I would have to say, long term reliability. That's why I paid $725.00 for a Beretta 90-two instead of $400.00 for a Taurus PT92. That's why I paid $750.00 for a HK USPc instead of $250.00 for a Sigma. The Beretta, HK, and Sig pistols have been put to the ultimate test for reliability, the military test trials. All pistols shot 160,000 rds without any failure. I could not afford nor do I have the time to conduct such testing, therefor I made my purchasing decisions by reading these test trials. My next handgun will be the new HK45 that has yet to be released. I thought long and hard between the HK45 and a 1911. It simply came down to my want/need of a .45 cal field pistol. The HK45 will cost between $850.00 - $1000.00, but I will have total confidence in this pistol when the time of need may come. I know this because my HK USPc has been flawless, and the HK45 was designed and built for...................the military's new side arm in .45 cal. More grueling test for the HK!
Originally Posted by richardoldfield
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