Tough Guns

This is a discussion on Tough Guns within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I vote GLOCK. - made of tough material - coated with tough material - simple design, few moving parts, very little to go wrong The ...

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 79

Thread: Tough Guns

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    south Florida
    Posts
    3,168
    I vote GLOCK.

    - made of tough material
    - coated with tough material
    - simple design, few moving parts, very little to go wrong

    The rest seem to have more complex mechanisms; and I view those as more prone to failure than simple ones. GLOCK is simple.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #47
    Member Array Alien Nation's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    283
    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    I vote GLOCK.

    - made of tough material
    - coated with tough material
    - simple design, few moving parts, very little to go wrong

    The rest seem to have more complex mechanisms; and I view those as more prone to failure than simple ones. GLOCK is simple.
    "- made of tough material
    - coated with tough material
    - simple design, few moving parts, very little to go wrong"
    Same reasons I went with the XD(Glocks and the newer XD's have the same finnish). Glock has Tenifer. XD's have Melonite

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

    Tenifer is a trademarked name for the end result of a chemical bath nitriding process that embeds nitrogen into an iron-containing alloy to create a corrosion-resistant finish that is a dull grey in color and extremely hard. The generic term for this type of process is carbonitriding. Other trade names for carbonitriding include Melonite, Sursulf, Arcor, Tufftride, and Koline.

    I do very much agree that LEO's benefit from the parts availability for the Glocks too. I still have mucho respect for the Glock pistols. Heck to me Glock is the reasons we have the XD(so Springfield could compete). I have had my XD completely dissasemled and it would be as easy(to me) to replace parts as a Glock if Springfield will get off thier butts and start selling them( I believe they will with enough demand).
    “You come at me with a sword and with a spear. But I come at you in the name of the LORD of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom you have defied. This day the LORD will deliver you into my hand, and I will strike you and take your head from you". 1 Samuel 17, 45-46
    Brian

  4. #48
    Member Array GaryARK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    77

    CZ 75 P-01 is NATO Stock Numbered

    Objective testing is the difference maker. The CZ 75 P-01 has passed NATO testing.

    Must be able to complete the following without failure:

    4000 dry firings
    3000 De-cockings
    Operator level disassembly 1350 times with out wear or damage to components.
    Complete disassembly 150 times, this is all the way down, pins, springs etc.
    100% interchangability, any number of pistols randomly selected, disassembled, parts mixed and reassembled with no failures of any kind including loss of accuracy.


    Safety requirements:

    Drop test
    1.5 meter (4.9”) drop test, this is done 54 times with the pistol loaded (blank) and the hammer cocked. Dropping the pistol on the butt, the muzzle, back of the slide, sides of the gun, top of the slide, in essence, any angle that you could drop the gun from. This is done on concrete and 0 failures are allowed! A failure is the gun firing.

    3meter drop (9.8”) 5 times with the pistol loaded (blank) and the hammer cocked, This is done on concrete and 0 failures are allowed! A failure is the gun firing.

    After these tests are complete the gun must fire without service.

    The factory contracted an independent lab to do additional testing on guns that previously passed the drop tests. These pistol were dropped an additional 352 times without failure.

    The pistol must also complete an environmental conditions test:
    This means cold, heat, dust/sand and mud.
    The pistol must fire after being frozen for 24 hours at –35C (-36F).
    The pistol must fire after being heated for 24 hours at 70C (126F)
    The pistol must fire after being submerged in mud, sand and combinations including being stripped of oil then completing the sand and mud tests again.

    Service life:
    The service life requirement from the Czech police was 15,000 rounds of +P ammo!
    The pistol will exceed 30,000 rounds with ball 9mm.

    Reliability:
    The reliability requirements for the P-01 pistol are 99.8%, that’s a .2% failure rate.
    This equals 20 stoppages in 10,000 rounds or 500 “Mean Rounds Between Failure” (MRBF)
    During testing, the average number of stoppages was only 7 per 15,000 rounds fired, this is a .05% failure rate, a MRBF rate of 2142 rounds! Over 4 time the minimum acceptable requirement.
    The U.S. Army MRBF requirement is 495 rounds for 9mm pistols with 115 grain Ball ammunition.

  5. #49
    New Member Array xp100's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    FLORIDA
    Posts
    2

    tough guns

    I suggest the Makarov. This is one tough handgun. They can be found for very little money. They conceal well. Designed as a military sidearm, what more can you ask.

  6. #50
    Member Array AirMech74's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Oklahoma City
    Posts
    343
    I'm gonna show some love for the HK USP...I love mine, and would gladly take it into combat if I had the choice. I think it can hold up to any Glock or XD out there.

    http://www.streetpro.com/usp/torture.html
    Better to be tried by 12, than carried by 6

    Aviation Machinist's Mate USN 93-97
    NAF Atsugi, Japan CVW 5
    CV62 USS Independence
    HS-12 Wyverns, VS-21 Fighting Redtails

  7. #51
    VIP Member Array ron8903's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    2,575
    Imitation is the best form of flattery, and I will choose a Glock every time.

    And I have plenty of handguns to choose from.
    I can carry all models of handguns on duty
    except a 1911.

    Sig P220/226 would be my 2nd.
    "A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."
    - Sir Winston Churchill

  8. #52
    Administrator
    Array SIXTO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    19,724
    Quote Originally Posted by cockedlocked01 View Post
    I believe the reason Sixto says that (& why it's a big deal), is that he's looking at it from a LE point of view. Guns do break (Any of them do: Sigs, HKs, etc.), especially if used on a daily basis. LE guns may not be fired alot, except for training &/or qualifications (Unless one is in a specialized unit), but they're drawn constantly, bang against just about everything, & many times are cleaned properly.

    That is why Glocks are the #1 gun used by LE. Are they necessarily better? No, but they keep going, fairly inexpensively, & if necessary, can be fixed easily & cheaply.
    Yup. If you can say that HK's Sigs or whatever will never need parts, I'll say that my car will never break down. We both know that its a foolish gamble. It will happen at some point.

    My argument with the XD finish is this- they did copy Glocks proven methods after problems of their own. Glock still has the upper hand in my book though... they have been proven over and over again. XD just hasnt had that chance yet.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  9. #53
    Member Array Mojoski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Atlanta Area
    Posts
    212
    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    The rest seem to have more complex mechanisms; and I view those as more prone to failure than simple ones. GLOCK is simple.
    For the record, the only additional parts in the XD over the Glock are the ones required to provide the additional safety features that the XD brings to the table. A quick look at the exploded diagrams of each pistol will show that the part count on the Glock is only a few parts less than the XD and the extra parts in the XD are all for things like the Grip Safety, Loaded Chamber Indicator, etc. All features that I wanted that the Glock didn't offer.
    Proud Georgia Firearms Licensee
    Springfield Armory XD-9 Subcompact
    Seecamp LWS32
    Browning Buckmark
    Walther P22
    Bersa Thunder 380

  10. #54
    Member Array ShadeAngel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    383
    Just some food for thought...

    I am getting my P.O.S.T cert and I start classes this fall. In the giant stack of paperwork I have had to complete there was a memo about firearms training. It lists what calibers and firearms are acceptable for training. In big bold letters it states

    GLOCK PISTOLS AND SMITH AND WESSON "SIGMA SERIES" PISTOLS WILL NOT BE ALLOWED, IN ANY CALIBER
    Now I carry an XD so I thought, well they want something with a manual safety, or maybe they have an issue with the type of action, since they don't allow SA only. But they list the number to the range if you have any questions, so I give them a call.

    The gentleman who answers the phone politely tells me that the XD and the new S&W M&P are both fine, but Glocks are not. Unfortunately I forgot to ask him why, I was just happy my XD was good to go.

    So why would they not allow Glocks if they they allow XDs and M&Ps?
    "You can't shake the devils hand and say you were only kidding"

  11. #55
    Senior Member Array cockedlocked01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    1,046
    I'm not familiar with the M&P trigger, but my guess is that there's no other safety on it. At least with the XD, you have a grip safety. I didn't think the Sigma's trigger was that light, but maybe.

    Also, some administrators get real wierd on Glock type guns (Which the Sigma basically is-not at good, but it's essentially a copy). Someone may have just not liked them or the reholstering issue.

    I'm not saying it's a smart move, but administrations can be funny about things.
    "Use human means as though divine ones didn't exist, and divine means as though there were no human ones." Baltasar Gracian
    Integrated Close Combat
    NRA Member
    Glock 19 & 26, Kahr CM9 & P45, Para P12, Kel-Tec P-32, S&W 442, & Dan Wesson 14-2.

  12. #56
    VIP Member Array BAC's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    2,292
    That actually reminds me of the last time I went shooting rifles. We stopped at a nearby gun shop to pick up some ammo (great selection and awesome prices on mil-surp 8mm and 7.62x54r ammo).

    After finding out that I was one of those guys who actually liked Glocks, he essentially went on a tirade about how unsafe they are, that most of the firearms-related accidents happening with local LEO training are a result of mechanical failure of their Glock pistols (the G17; same model my family owns). He haughtily explained to me that it's not a safe pistol if bumping or slamming it causes it to fire, "since the firing pin is always lined up with the primer and isn't that secure", and I didn't have the heart to debate otherwise. He was already convinced of the superiority of other handguns.

    Interesting on the CZ pistol, GaryARK. I don't see many CZ's anywhere (locally) that don't fall into the C&R category.


    Quick Question: Does anybody happen to have the physical specs of the HK USP and USPc? I've only found the 9mm version's specs, and only the overall length of the other models, and it's hard to make comparisons without something to actually compare with.


    -B

  13. #57
    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Columbia, SC
    Posts
    2,147
    Quote Originally Posted by ShadeAngel View Post
    So why would they not allow Glocks if they they allow XDs and M&Ps?
    I've heard of situations where a police department banned Glocks because someone (usually by the chief or a high ranking officer) had an ND and blamed the gun rather than their own carelessness.

    Quote Originally Posted by BAC View Post
    Quick Question: Does anybody happen to have the physical specs of the HK USP and USPc? I've only found the 9mm version's specs, and only the overall length of the other models, and it's hard to make comparisons without something to actually compare with.
    Stats for the fullsize 9mm and .40, the fullsize .45, and the compact.

  14. #58
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    OK
    Posts
    3,468
    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    ......your whole statement is incorrect at every level. To each his own
    I'll agree to disagree, and admit my prejudice: I've owned, worked on, and carried 1911s. My 3 closest friends are professional gunsmiths(Glock/Sig/HK/Colt/S&W certified armorers). My statement is a summation of experiences. Edit to add: you can have a bomb-proof 1911, but its one you build, not something you buy stock, in somewhat less than general terms.

    I don't have a 1911 any longer, not because they "don't work", but because the tooling and parts are exhorbitant for long term miantenance, and another platform is best suited to my perceived needs.

  15. #59
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    5,133
    Shade: Which POST academy are you going to ? A young lad who is like a stepson to me just went thro TSJC post last year and glock was fine there , in fact i sent him off with my 17 after graduation he got his own and went glock there too .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  16. #60
    VIP Member Array BAC's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    2,292
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeagle View Post
    Stats for the fullsize 9mm and .40, the fullsize .45, and the compact.
    Perfect, thank you.


    -B

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Tough choice between 3 guns
    By javahawk in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 51
    Last Post: June 5th, 2010, 01:00 PM
  2. Tough laws on BB guns in the UK.
    By ErikGr7 in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: May 12th, 2009, 09:26 PM
  3. Tough one
    By DaveH in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: May 4th, 2009, 12:25 AM
  4. One Tough Dog
    By dr_cmg in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: February 6th, 2007, 02:55 AM
  5. Tough !!!
    By Arkie in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: October 28th, 2006, 07:45 AM

Search tags for this page

p220 tough gun dropped
,
p345 torture test
,
ruger 345 torture test
,

ruger p345 torture test

,
sig p220 torture test
,
sig sauer p220 10,000 torture test
,
tough guns caliber
,
tough guns meaning
Click on a term to search for related topics.