1911 or k9 for iwb
This is a discussion on 1911 or k9 for iwb within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I want something more suitable for pants carry than my p2k (too thick, butt pokes out of shirt). Want something slim and small, but not ...
June 20th, 2007 11:18 PM
1911 or k9 for iwb
I want something more suitable for pants carry than my p2k (too thick, butt pokes out of shirt). Want something slim and small, but not sub-compact. I looked at the kahrs and the K9 shot and felt great but it seems like a luck-of-the-draw game with the company. Are there any 1911s that are as thin as the kahrs? Minimum 9mm. How are the EMP, or kimbers?
June 20th, 2007 11:43 PM
Not too much difference in width between the K9 and 1911.....it all depends on your body! Generally the all steel Kahrs have proven to be more reliable with fewer problems when purchased NIB. There have been a lot of reported sporadic problems with the polymer Kahrs.....enough that I would stay away from them, especially a used one. For me, my K40 carries much better IWB than my prefered 1911 so in the extreme summer heat here in Az. when very light clothing is worn, I carry my K40 IWB. All other times, when I carry strong side, it's a 1911 or, on rare occasion a Glock......which, for me does not work IWB(think brick). EMP's or other short barreled versions of 1911's can be very finicky ammo eaters....not to say they cannot be reliable but require more attention to remain that way. The 1911 platform was designed to be a 5" pistol and anytime you shorten that past 4.25" it will require constant attention to maintain rreliability....
Hope this helps you out.
Last edited by Jim Bellino; June 20th, 2007 at 11:50 PM.
Reason: To add info.
June 21st, 2007 12:10 AM
I've got a couple of Kimber's that are nice guns. Once they are broke-in they are reliable. Uncannily accurate and very concealable. Heightened comfort level for me when carrying a 1911 that I'm sure hits what I aim at.
June 21st, 2007 12:18 AM
i am 5'11" 170lbs. so im looking at carry-ability and concealability. im skinny so the thinner the better. do the safeties and grips on small 1911s add much girth to the weapon?
also i was looking at a galco usa that might be the smallest combo for carry. any others,
June 21st, 2007 03:07 AM
If you are looking for the thinnest 1911 look here at the LS9 & LS40 http://www.stiguns.com/
June 21st, 2007 03:25 AM
The STI might be about as thin as the K9, but the K9's about 1" shorter & over 1/4 lb. lighter. That's a quite a difference after a long day of carrying.
"Use human means as though divine ones didn't exist, and divine means as though there were no human ones." Baltasar Gracian
Integrated Close Combat
Glock 19 & 26, Kahr CM9 & P45, Para P12, Kel-Tec P-32, S&W 442, & Dan Wesson 14-2.
June 21st, 2007 04:58 AM
June 21st, 2007 05:46 AM
P239 in Brommeland Max Con V
Why is it that you always find things at the last place you looked?
Because when you find something-you stop looking-Mooch
June 21st, 2007 06:14 AM
I find that what I carry the pistol in to be every bit as important as which pistol I'm carrying. I have a choice of 2 1911's (and the dreaded Micro 3" is less finicky about ammo than the Commander despite the wives tales) or a J frame snub. The 1911's in the right holster disappear under a large tee shirt.
What type of holster are you using? I still find for me the 1911 is very easy to conceal even in the summer with a McDaniel II but everyone has different builds and preferences. I don't see a 1/4" or so of thickness changing concealability anywhere near as much as the right carry rig.
If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.
June 21st, 2007 06:31 AM
OK. Here's my feeble attempt to answer your question.
The short answer is, "It depends."
First, let's look at the K9:
Overall length - 6 inches
Barrel - 3.5 inches
Height - 4 1/2 inches
Slide width of .9 inches
Weight, empty - 25 ounces
Capacity - 7+1 (9mm)
Now, let's look at the Detonics Combatmaster:
Overall length - 7 inches
Barrel - 3 ½ inches
Height - 4 ¾ inches
Width - 1 ¼ inches
Weight (empty, with magazine) - 34 ounces
Capacity - 6 +1 (.45 ACP)
(Note - I used the CombatMaster stats because they're one of the few places I've seen that lists a height. For all Officer's ACP-sized frames, add 3/8" to the height.)
(Note 2 - 1911s vary a little in the slide width. I think the Detonics has one of the thicker slides.)
For me, the biggest concern carrying IWB is grip length/overall height. After all, the barrel is down your pants, so who cares how long it is (within reason)?
The size of your hands are going to be a big player in how short of a grip you can handle. Most folks don't like the 2+ finger grip of the Detonics, so they opt for an OACP-sized grip. I have small hands, so it doesn't bother me. What I have noticed is the K9 allows more hand on the grip for a slightly shorter package overall.
My main problem with the OACP-sized and 3" barrelled 1911s is the lack of barrel you're getting for the same-sized grip. If you're going to have that big of a grip, who not get a CCO-sized pistol. Now, you've got a commander-length barrel (an extra 3/4") for free. If, however, you're carrying OWB, that's a different story.
To answer your other question, the safeties on a 1911 are negligible in size/width.
The two pistols have completely different modes of operation and feel a lot different in the hand (to me). Find what you're comfortable with. Either is a good choice.
Hope this isn't too rambling at 5AM. It's laced with a copious amount of opinion, so YMMV.
June 21st, 2007 08:42 AM
Colt Defender same thickness as Kahr K9
If you buy a Colt Defender and put slim grip panels on it, the slide width is 0.90 inches and the grip width is 1.0 inches. This is the same width as a Kahr K9. The Colt is a little longer and higher than the Kahr, but not very much. Here is my Colt Defender, which has never failed to feed or eject any ammo I have tried:
Originally Posted by titleist
June 21st, 2007 12:03 PM
I'd just go with a 4'inch 1911 like a Kimmy CDP Pro size or Springer Champ ... not a model with the full size grip. That will get you about the same size a the P or K series Kahrs.
I carry a Karh P40 in summer, and a larger 1911 for the rest of the year. If had to choose my sidearms over again right now, I would not buy a Kahr because their QA is shoddy and I don't want to gamble when I purchase a carry piece. I lucked out.
If you need something smaller, then it's probably time to look into pocket carry.
June 21st, 2007 02:09 PM
A 1911 is as thin as a 1911 is. I agree that thinner grips will make a difference in CCW as will a bobtail.
Whatever you do, do NOT get anything shorter than 4.25". Below this magic number (yes, even .10") reliability gremlins abound.
A Les Baer Stinger is a great option; 4.25" bbl with an officer's frame.
"Happiness, is a warm gun" -St. John of Liverpool
Proud to be an infidel.
June 21st, 2007 02:47 PM
No need to be afraid of the full size kahrs be they steel or poly . Even the pm khars seem to be fine if the serial starts with ab or later and they are properly lubed since they like to run 'wet' . It boils down to what action you want , more than any advantage in size between a full size kahr and the smaller 1911s .
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June 21st, 2007 02:54 PM
I'm your height and, up until two years ago, was your weight as well. The 1911 is surprisingly concealable with the right belt and holster. No experience with the Kahrs but lots of folks love them so there must be a reason. As RR said, there's more than just size to consider. I prefer every shot to be the same, whether that's SA or DAO but other folks do just fine with SA/DA guns.
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