Have you noticed this about guns...
This is a discussion on Have you noticed this about guns... within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by SIXTO
OK, I know this might end up in a heated debate; but thats not my intention, so lets try to be ...
June 27th, 2007 09:44 PM
I think this is a pretty good generalization around forums and IDPA Matches. The people that I know who are serious, go in harms way, and teach classes to CAG, SF, SEALs usually have something more like a SIG, Glock and a J-Frame. Not taking away from a properly tuned 1911, they are fantastic guns and do not have to cost $2000.00.
Originally Posted by SIXTO
June 27th, 2007 09:57 PM
LOL, I left it vague on purpose
Originally Posted by QKShooter
The "pro" guns are the utilitarian type guns built for the purpose guns are made and nothing more. They are not a fashion statement or attempt to make one feel tough, tactical or "extreme". The bells and whistles on these guns are ones that also serve a utilitarian purpose, and the owner knows what that purpose is.
Those are the guns I buy for carry. Glocks, Sigs and the red headed step child- Kahr. Revolvers are in this group too, they tend to stay pretty simple.
June 27th, 2007 09:58 PM
Says the convert
Originally Posted by FIREARMZ
It is usually rather easy to spot the people who do not train or use their ccw gun seriously or as rigorous as they should. They are usually the ones with every bell, whistle, and recoil reducer know to man hanging off of them. It also usually doesn't take much to make them realize that they don't need all that crap to make the gun run properly. But there are those certain few with closed minds, I like to refer to them as the unteachable, that have made up their mind waaaaaaaay in advance they are always going to be right.
"Fear is what keeps you alive but panic is what kills you" - Leo
"At contact distances, if you can't shoot him, hit him...Nothing says 'TAP' can't be accomplished by smashing the magazine into his face." - Gomez
TRAMPLE THE WEAK AND HURDLE THE DEAD
June 27th, 2007 10:13 PM
I'm just old school.
J and K frames take care of my protection needs. Practice and train hard so the limited number of shots all count.
June 27th, 2007 10:17 PM
SIXTO, I have to agree with you on this one. I have noticed the same thing. I have seen guys, and I'[m sure all of you have seen them too at the range, that you just KNOW have no experience. We know this because they pull some pimped out gun with lots of gadgets and crazy stuff on it out of their gun case while I am shooting a plain Glock or just a blued P239.
I'll give you a good example. About a year ago, before I got the Glock, my wife and kids and I went to the range. We were having a file family shooting experience with our little collection of guns (the Sig, the XD, Ruger .22/45, Taurus PT-111 and a Revolver made by Rossi) when in the lane 2 over from us we saw a young guy and his girlfriend set up. He produced from his bag a big Desert Eagle with Gold plated parts (Safety, trigger slide release etc..). He was very proud of it but looked like he might have trouble holding it at arms length.
We were plinking away and his gun is booming every few seconds. After a couple of mags I looked over at his target, which was about 15 feet down range by the way and saw that it looked like it was shot by a shotgun with Buck Shot. No grouping at all.
He asked me what we were shooting when I was standing back while my wife was shooting her XD and I told him I was shooting the P239 in 9mm. He smiled slyly and said he just wouldn't feel protected with anything less than a .44 magnum. I just smiled and kept quiet.
When we were leaving he was out at the counter buying some new targets. He asked how we did and we showed him our targets. He was blown away by the groups. Then he was really shamed whe I told him that the targets were shot by my 16 year old son, my 12 year old daughter and my 11 year old son. All were MUCH better than any of his.
He did not look like he felt well protected with his precious .44 magnum then.
June 27th, 2007 10:23 PM
I'd amend that to, "It also usually doesn't take much to make them realize that all that crap can make the gun run improperly." All that junk doesn't just not help, it can actually hurt, especially in the reliability department.
Originally Posted by Teak
June 27th, 2007 10:23 PM
I started with my FFL when I was 21 years old. I sold junk, high end, what ever one wanted. I put pennies together, and bought what I could at the time, AKA, most bang for the buck. Through the years, I sold, traded and worked my way up on quality. Blessings in life and a great job have put me in the position to pretty much get what I want now. To this day, I still own some low end stuff by some's standards. I also own what is consider very high end to others. Bottom line, I enjoy firearms. I have always been one to encourage to "run what you brung", whether it be motorcycles or guns. There is no magic bullet as they say on what is best. As my posted carry gun says, P229 SAS. I believe it is the best of all worlds, but just my opinion as your mileage may vary. Stay armed, practice, practice, practice.
I know, I know, you are smarter than me..just ask you..
June 27th, 2007 10:30 PM
I can barely tolerate the M1911 and I positively will not own a High Power.
I'll take a modern, striker fired DAO pistol over those two any day.
June 27th, 2007 10:37 PM
I have nine 1911 models, from Colt, Kimber, S&W and Wesson. I own three Browning Hi-Powers. Hi-Powers have never had an issue, can't say that for the others. I have had Glocks FTE, Sigs FTE, Kahr FTE..Good and bad with em all.
I know, I know, you are smarter than me..just ask you..
June 27th, 2007 10:42 PM
While the "flash" and "sizzle" catches the eye, for me the carry weapon is a downright practical decision: whatever works 100% of the time, 100% of the time, so long as it's within the size, weight and capacity parameters I prefer. For years, that was the Browning BDM 9mm semi-auto. Now, it's a CZ P01 9mm semi-auto. Out of the box with factory pieces, with a bit of polishing, tuning and minor spring tweaks where appropriate, they both just keep on tickin'. Bottom end of the affordability spectrum, too. Got to love a good thing. The KelTec's a recent addition, but the P3AT fills the niche of go-everywhere, or go-when-the-primary-can't gun.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: Why the Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
June 27th, 2007 10:45 PM
I am young and have only about 9 months carrying. But I am one to carry a gun that goes bang and fits my hand. I like having more than 13 rounds because those are the guns that tend to fit my hand the best. I currently carry a M&P 40 and (rarely) or a Kel-tec 380. I dont like to shoot the kel-tec but I am proficient with it, the M&P is a fun gun to shoot that fits my hand, if I had tried a G22 I may have had it but I figured since one did not fit my hand (G23) the other would not, this was my mistake, I have since held one and shot my father's G27 I may eventually own one.
"The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose."
-James Earl Jones
June 27th, 2007 10:58 PM
That's the first time anyone's every called me "old."
Originally Posted by Thumper
I'm 22 years old and if you put a six Glocks and one 1911 on the table in front of me, I'd go, "Ohh, a 1911." lol
QK summed up why I love my 1911 like others have learned to love theirs. They are just so darned customizable.
I work at a gun shop and this is what I have come to SEE and realize.
The gang-banging, trouble maker types who are barely 21 go for the Hi-Points and what ever is the cheapest gun they can get through any means possible, even a straw purchase.
Punk, 21 y/o kids who want to be cool
The punk 21 y/o kids who just got their permit to carry and think they are Billy bad-butt, almost always come in and point to the most flashy and "TACTICOOL" looking AR-15 on the shelf while going, "WOW, that is SOOO fricken awesome."
When it comes to handguns they FLOCK to the Glocks, M&Ps and XDs. They want that blackest, sleekest, most bad, tacticool looking gun on the shelf. While they pass the S&W 500s and the Desert Eagle .50s they go, "Next, I'm getting that."
The "I Only Want to Wound Them" (usually) Girl
Sadly, we get the people who come in looking for a gun that will only "wound" or scare an attacker. Yes, they are usually girls and they usually head straight to the .22s, .25s and .32s. They don't handle anything that "looks" menacing, and the smaller, cuter, and less scary, the better.
The compensator is the man who thinks he needs to show the wold how much of a man he is by buying the highest caliber gun on the shelf. These men come in all shapes and sizes (and so far, YES, they have ALL been men). They buy the 44 mags, the 460 and 500 S&Ws. They take nothing less than a .45 and don't ever get caught shooting anything less than that next to them because they will preach of your foolishness and how you are a wimp and you NEED to have something with more power. They hold up their bullets like trophies and generally annoy everyone in their presence.
Your average, middle aged customer/novice
These type go for the cheapest gun on the shelf. They look at the Hi-Points only because they have the lowest price tag. They generally don't care what the guns look like, and even if they do they can easily be persuaded to look elsewhere if you explain the gun is a poor shooter or prone to problems. They usually end up with Taurus Millennium in 9mm (because, to be quite honest, I was surprised to find that your average novice is afraid of a .45). I sell more of those to your average gun novice than any other gun.
The rest of the crowd, to include your gun nuts and your more experienced shooters, go for everything from Glocks to 1911s to revolvers to XDs, to Sigs. Usually they come in knowing exactly what they want and why they want it, either by experience or from shopping and learning on their own.
And that's what I've observed!
But that's all just Lima theory.
June 27th, 2007 11:10 PM
I carry a stock SIG P228. Nothing fancy about it. Bought it used in great shape. Got a new custom IWB holster (retails around $75) from the Leather Arsenal but I got it on the cheap off of ebay for I think less than 12.00.
The most expensive gun that I ever owned was a bone stock A2 Colt Post Ban AR-15. When I get another AR some day it will be a stock A2 with a 20 inch barrel.
I will never be a "TactiCOOLCAT". My home defense shotgun is a Remington 870 that is a converted bird gun with the original wood on it. The last time I took out my Norinco MAK-90 to a range, a bunch of the black rifle snobs with everything but the kitchen sink hanging off of them were looking down their noses at my AK. I didn't care though because I don't live my life to keep up with the Jones'.
I did jump on the Kel-Tec bandwagon though and got a P3AT. It seemed like everybody was/is buying one of these and it really fit a niche for me as a BUG/Deep concealment pistol.
I do like flashlights but once again it is a simple Surefire 6p. Don't carry a knife because I am not proficient in fighting with one and don't want to have it taken and used on me.
I guess when I get older and make more money I will probably get some BBQ guns, but for now, that just isn't me.
Why Ike, whatever do you mean? Maybe poker's just not your game Ike. I know! Let's have a spelling contest!
June 27th, 2007 11:30 PM
I will say this: all of our guns are stock. The only modification that has been made to our collection is a set of replacement grips on the PT-99 and then only because the original Brazilian hardwood grips broke after 20,000 rounds or so.
I carry a Glock 23. Not because it is "cool" but because it is simple, easy to care for, accurate and tough as nails. I do not worry about scratching it or dinging it.
It is a working gun. Not a fashion accessory.
June 27th, 2007 11:42 PM
I'm not sure what catagory I fall into, if any. I love shooting my plain-jane mil-spec 1911, but my edc is a Glock 30 and/or Kahr PM9. Always have at least one knife, usually a surefire G2 also. My wife carries an S&W 642 with CT laser grips, likes shooting the Kahr, but isn't very comfortable with either .45. I would love to have a high-end custom 1911, but just can't justify the cost any time soon. Then again, I recently spent a pretty good chunk of money for a loaded Springfield M1A, Match grade sights and trigger, stainless barrel, etc., along with 1,000 rounds of mil-spec ammo. That would have easily been enough for that loaded Kimber or Thunder Ranch 1911. If money was no object, I probably would have several high end pistols, but I would likely still carry the Glock. So far, it's been 100% reliable (around 3000 rounds of assorted FMJ + HP's), at least as accurate as I am at any reasonable range. Reliable and accurate sums up what I demand in a carry weapon. Pretty comes in a distant second. It's a tool, and for me functions at least as well as something that might cost a lot more. Oh, and I am 59, been a gun owner and shooter my entire life, but only had my carry license a few months
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