This is a discussion on PF9 vs P3AT within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have narrowed my choices to either the PF9 or the P3AT for primary pocket carry. I have read/ researched, and these two guns fall ...
I have narrowed my choices to either the PF9 or the P3AT for primary pocket carry. I have read/ researched, and these two guns fall in my size and price range. I currently carry a Taurus 850 CIA TI and it feels like an orange in my pocket. I am relatively new to CCW and wonder what others think of one Keltec vs the other. I prefer the 9mm, but the size/ weight issue for pocket carry is pushing me toward the P3at. Also many of the good reviews for the latest gen P3at also leads me in that direction. Unfortunately, I have held the P3at once, the PF9 never, consequences of living in a rural community. What are your impressions?
Yes, I would definitely prefer the R9, or the PM9, but budget dictates the purchase.
It's easy to say go with the 9mm. If you already have a snub .38, & believe it's on par with a 9mm powerwise, then get the P-3AT. That way you can carry the snub when you want more power or maybe IWB/OWB (Like during colder weather). During the warmer months &/or when you're just making a trip down to the local stop & rob, you can carry the P-3AT.
If you're looking for an all arounder, I'd recommend going with the 9mm, though.
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Glock 19 & 26, Kahr P45, Taurus PT709 SLIM, Kel-Tec P-32, S&W 442, & Dan Wesson 14-2.
I own a P3AT, and have held and handled a PF9, but never shot one. On paper, the size and weight difference seems small, but side by side, the PF9 seems huge compared to the P3AT. My P3AT has been 100% reliable, and quite accurate. I would expect the same from the PF9. Both have KelTec's great warranty and customer service.
I chose the P3AT because I needed something I could conceal in T-shirts and shorts or swim trunks. Pocket carry would not always be possible, and I don't like it anyway. The belt clip on the P3AT is perfect for this, and is not available for a left-hander on the PF9. That option on top of the small size and very low weight make it ideal for my purpose.
However, the .380 is a bit of a wimp when compared to 9mm. The 380 fires a 95gr bullet at 955 fps for 190 ft/lbs of muzzle energy, while the 9mm producing 1190 fps and 362 ft/lbs with a 115gr bullet.
Whether the .380 is 'enough' gun for you or not is something you will have to decide for yourself. Personally, I feel quite safe with the P3AT/.380 combination, but I carry an extra magazine, and practice enough so that I can place my shots where they are needed.
. . . side by side, the PF9 seems huge compared to the P3AT.
I concur.
Also, while I'm on record as saying that I feel fine relying on the .380 based on the more-than-a-dozen handgun killings with them that I've worked on (another one this week), I'm leery of the small P3AT sorts. I've chrono'd them pretty extensively, and they don't develop anywhere near the velocities one gets from "full sized" .380s. All of the killings I've seen have been with full sized .380s, so I feel the jury is still out on the minis.
Yeah, the velocity and energy figures I gave are from longer barrels than on either KelTec.
Erich, can you give us some figures for the shorter barreled guns? My informal penetration tests (with FMJs) seemed to show only a small reduction in penetration between the P3AT and something with a PPK or Bersa length barrel.
PF9 gets my vote. I have shot both the the p3at and the PF9 and they are both excellent but for everyday the extra punch of the 9mm will be worth the extra size. Its still incredibly light and small for a 9mm and will conceal better than the taurus.
I have a PF9 and a P32, If you want a dedicated pocket carry gun go with the P3AT. You can stuff the PF-9 into a big pocket, but it's not really a true pocket gun. However it's real comfortable and hides well in an IWB rig. And that would be a much better Primary rig than a .380 in the pocket.
i have a PF9. if you aren't a big guy, you'll probably want the 3AT. the PF9 will fit in pockets as a pocket gun, but only just, and if your pockets are big.
War is not the ugliest of things. Worse is the decayed state of moral feeling which thinks nothing is worth a war. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which he cares for more than his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free. -J.S. Mill
Thank you all for your responses. This pushes me even more to the P3at. I usually wear jeans or denim shorts so the pocket size is a limiting factor. How well do these guns take banging around in your pocket (w/ holster of course). Getting on equipment and bumping into things are common.
- Kurt “Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it.” ~Pericles of Athens
Primary Carry - Colt Commander .45 in a Brommeland Max-Con V
I own a PF-9 and a P-3AT. As someone here already said, the 9mm is NOT a pocket gun unless you wear cargo pants or have very large pockets. For a comparison, the PF-9 is almost exactly the same size as a Bersa 380 (or a PPK), so if you can comfortably carry one of those in your pocket, you could carry the PF-9. If not and you want a true "pocket" gun, go with the P-3AT. I included a photo of my PF-9 next to my wife's 380 CC for comparison.
OTOH, the PF-9 is small enough that with a decent holster, it's very easy and comfortable to carry on a belt. While the PF-9 carries the same number of rounds as the P-3AT, you get the extra punch a 9mm offers over the .380. One other thing, the early PF-9's had a lot of feeding problems due to using the same barrel as K-T's P-11. They modified the barrel around the first of the year (made the feed ramp longer) and the problems have stopped. If you get a PF-9, check to see which barrel you have. I also included a pic of both barrels so there is no confusion.
I purchased a PF9 recently and not one issue so far. Shot it several times at the range. I have no problem at all carrying in my pocket. I use a pocket holster. Jeans are difficult - but casual dress Dockers or others work fine. I have looked at many sub compacts and the PF9, in my opinion, come out on top. In the same caliber I could not find anything lighter or slimmer. Plus it is a decent looking tool. From my understanding, the newer PF9s do not have the issues of the older models. Now it is not as fun to shoot as one of my Glocks or other firearms, but I feel the PF9 is more than adequate with the personal defense & ease of concealment this firearm offers. I either carry this or the Glock 27 for carry. I love my Glock, but it is sometimes hard to conceal. Loaded up with the Pow'r Ball +P ammo and I am good to go. jmo
Erich, can you give us some figures for the shorter barreled guns?
I have that stuff at home, and I'm at the office now. I recall that was getting over 100 fps slower with the P3AT than with a P232. Hydra-Shok 90-grainers were 846 fps, IIRC. 95-gr Win USA ball was 819, I believe.
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