Advice needed on new carry gun

[tapout1003]

Hi guys I've spent the last week looking for a new training gun and I'm more lost about what I want now than I was a week ago. I've looked at everything from a $1300 Kimber to a $300 Bersa and I'm getting frustrated. I currently have a few guns I carry. Bersa .380, Skyy 9mm, Hk USP C 9mm,Sig 225 and I think I even have a EAA .45 but I never carry it. My girlfriend is in the early learning stages and I'm gonna use this as an excuse to buy something new for her to learn with. I figure after she learns she'll want to pick her own carry gun so this will end up being my secondary behind my usp . Here is what i'm looking for.Please tell me if I'm missing something or you have a better idea.

Respectable manufacture -sig, hk, springfield etc
hi cap - 10 or more
easily concealable in an IWB or tuckable
SA/DA w/ de-cock - no DAO or LEM
Must accept a laser grip or internal laser.
9mm or 357 sig

First off i'm not a big laser fan but it is a valuable training tool. I want her to actually learn about the SA/DA system and not just pick up a DAO and pull the trigger.

So far I'm leaning toward a Sig Pro but I've never owned one and there doesn't seem to be much info anywhere on them. I know this topic is beat to death but I'm really out of options and any advice will be great.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[SIXTO]

A 229 or 228 is a great choice. It does all well. A 226 is a little larger, but still able to CC. It might be a little easier for a noob to learn to shoot too.

A 239 is a great choice as well, your lady friend might like it better due to the thinner grip. It does lack in the capacity department though.

I would stay away from the SigPro, there is little support for the gun.
I also dont like the grip/magazine design, it will pinch you hand pretty good during a tac or otherwise stressfull reload.

[vashooter]

Respectable manufacture -sig, hk, springfield etc
hi cap - 10 or more
easily concealable in an IWB or tuckable
SA/DA w/ de-cock - no DAO or LEM
Must accept a laser grip or internal laser.
9mm or 357 sig

First off i'm not a big laser fan but it is a valuable training tool. I want her to actually learn about the SA/DA system and not just pick up a DAO and pull the trigger.
.

Well, seems like you already have a few decent guns that you could train her on... but what the heck. Any reason for another gun right?

I'm not really in agreement with your desire to have her start out on a DA/SA gun - the fact that the first shot is DA and following shots are SA really throws people off since it's a fact that 99% of the training time at the range they'll shoot the gun SA, but in a defensive situation the first and most important shot will be DA. Most people you encounter at a range with DA/SA pistols can shoot single action great, and shoot DA well only when they concentrate and shoot slowly. That's not going to happen in a stress situation. DAO in a pistol like the S&W M&P's, Kahrs, Para LDA's, etc. are much more consistent.

Anyway... if you're stuck on your criteria... then you have lots of choices but most pistols with DA/SA, de-cockers, rails, and in 9mm/357Sig aren't the most thin guns around so they may not be the MOST comfortable for IWB and/or tuckable carry. For that look to a Kahr, single stack Glock, compact 1911-style... but then you're away from your DA/SA criteria. You may have to compromise on one of your criteria.

[tapout1003]

I need to stay with SA/DA. First because I'm gonna end up with this gun sooner or later and it's what i carry and second she can't learn about safety on DAO. If the SHTF she needs to be able to pick up one of my carry guns and use it.

[vashooter]

I need to stay with SA/DA. First because I'm gonna end up with this gun sooner or later and it's what i carry and second she can't learn about safety on DAO. If the SHTF she needs to be able to pick up one of my carry guns and use it.

Gotcha. Not trying to convert you or anything (heck, 3 of my 4 pistols are DA/SA with decockers) but gun handling safety doesn't have to include learning about de-cocking a pistol - frankly, I'm seriously considering changing my home defense gun from a DA/SA Beretta 92 to something DAO- I've heard about too many incidents where someone in a stressful incident or a shooting forgets to de-cock the gun afterwards and fires off another shot by mistake becasue of trembling hands or trying to holster the gun with the hammer back and off safe. Plus, I include myself in my above statement about DA shots not being accurate due to how we shoot the gun 99% of the time. I was just on the range this morning and was trying to do fast pairs from an "at rest" start position with the gun starting on DA. I can tell you that most of my first DA shots were not on center mass close enough for my comfort.
Some DAO pistols have horrible, long DAO trigger pulls (some of the Beretta DAO's are like that) but the newer, striker-fired guns are much better and crisper - my S&W M&P compact feels like a heavy single action trigger, which isn't a bad thing for a defensive gun. The last thing I want is my gun to go off because my fine muscle/motor skill control has gone bye-bye due to adreneline.
Anyway... back to your needs... I agree with the other poster - a Sig 228 is a great choice. A tad heavy for everyday CCW and maybe a tad thick for IWB, but Sigs are great guns and have great controls - if you're right handed of course. The decocker is tough to use smoothly if your a southpaw. That being said, it's nice and big as far as de-cockers go - take a look at your Bersa. The safety/decocker on those are tiny and you may miss it with your thumb in a stress situation.

[joleary223]

Dude, you need to get her in on this or you'll get a cool new gun and she's going to be sporting your USPc. I know, it's happened to me. I buy something I think my wife will like, and then she decides she likes what I have. Let her help pick.

[tapout1003]

I'm not totally again some form of DAO. Just against it for her starting out. She doesn't even know what a de-cocker is at this point. I'm doing my best to be patient and teach her well but she is at at very dangerous point of being more afraid than anything else.If I preach the safety bit of de-cockers and sa/da she is more relaxed than say with a glock and no safety at all. I have a couple Walther 990's I bought off a member here and worse comes to worse I'll start her on one of those but it sure isn't my first choice for a new shooter.

[Thumper]

It's very hard to "know" you're going to like a gun until you shoot it!

Do you have access to a range where you can rent guns to try them? Any friends that will let you try theirs? Even if you can't try the exact gun you're thinking of at least you can try different calibers. A lot of women like 9mm but I know a few who prefer .45!

The worst thing you can do for your girlfriend is for you to decide what she likes! By the way, women aren't stupid... she'll see right through your plan.

Best of luck!

[SIXTO]

I had another thought... How about a Beretta 92, the VERTEC version in particular? It has a slightly thinner grip and angle, rail and is a great gun to learn on. I know they are not as popular as the movie guns, buts it is a good one.

[tapout1003]

thumper: Nobody even close to my area rents guns. That's how I end up buying and selling guns on a regular basis. LOL As for the girlfriend she already knows about the plan. It's kinda a joke to us that I'm on a 1 gun a month allowance. And I'm supposed to stay off the HK forum. I just like to find excuses to get an extra. Like she's on a 1 purse a month allowance. Sometimes I think she gets the best of that deal.

sixto: I just got off the phone with a couple dealers and I'm going to go look at a Vertec tonight. I had great luck with an old...old 92 and if it's smaller it might just be the ticket.

[pogo2]

Respectable manufacture -sig, hk, springfield etc
hi cap - 10 or more
easily concealable in an IWB or tuckable
SA/DA w/ de-cock - no DAO or LEM
Must accept a laser grip or internal laser.
9mm or 357 sig

Your specs are not easy, in that quite a few good handguns will not meet all of them. But I think that the best fit with your specs is a Sig P229. This is available in 9mm or .357 Sig, has a high capacity magazine in either caliber, has a decocker with SA/DA trigger design, and will accept a laser grip panel. The gun is compact but wide, and would be a challenge in IWB carry - but I see you own a USP compact which is a similarly wide gun, so you must be used to this.

Probably the best thing about the P229 is the SA/DA trigger, which is probably the best rendition of this trigger type I have ever seen. It goes from a very smooth 10 pound DA on the first shot to a wonderful 4.5 pound SA on the second shot. I have this gun in .40 caliber, and believe that I can shoot the first DA shot as accurately as the following SA shots. I can't do this with any other SA/DA gun.

Here is a photo from the Sig website of one version of this gun:

[Thek9]

Next She'll Want A Ring. Be Real Careful!!!

T-

[Thumper]

thumper: Nobody even close to my area rents guns. That's how I end up buying and selling guns on a regular basis. LOL As for the girlfriend she already knows about the plan. It's kinda a joke to us that I'm on a 1 gun a month allowance. And I'm supposed to stay off the HK forum. I just like to find excuses to get an extra. Like she's on a 1 purse a month allowance. Sometimes I think she gets the best of that deal.

Yeah, I've lost a lot of loot trying guns by buying them... had hoped to save you that experiance!

I can't say enough good things about SIGs, I've had 'em all. Still kicking myself for letting my P-228 go.
The P-229 is a sweet gun and a good shooting weapon. The P-239 she's smaller and easier to carry.

I prefer the SA/DA myself although I do enjoy my SAS DAO especially for carry.

SIGs hold their price pretty well.

[Vaquero 45]

How's about a nice 3rd generation S&W pistol? DA/SA with a nice, smooth double action and a crisp single action pull. Decocker/safety, and high capacity. 5906, 6906, 910....take your pick!

They are good quality pistols, and you can pick up a police trade for $300-$400 now. Mags are not very expensive, and in the unlikely event that you have problems, S&W has excellent customer service.

[teknoid]

Stoeger Cougar:

ACTION: Double/ Single action.
MAGAZINE: 2 high-capacity magazines.
SAFETY: Ambidextrous safety lever/de-cocker.
SIGHTS: Quick read 3-dot sights.

This IS the Beretta Cougar. Stoeger is a subsidiary. All machinery was moved and production begun in Turkey. Best of all, it's less than $400. I got mine for $349. It's available in 9mm and .40SW. I have the 9mm, and am very happy with it. IMO, it's one of the best buys out there. The only downside I could see for your needs, is the weight (33.5 ounces.)

http://www.stoegerindustries.com/fir...cougar8000.tpl

Oops... I just noticed. No rail.