First Time Poster with two questions - making a purchase today
This is a discussion on First Time Poster with two questions - making a purchase today within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have narrowed my choice of a firearm to two choices:
Sig P229 or HK USP Compact and in the end I guess it will ...
August 30th, 2007 06:35 AM
First Time Poster with two questions - making a purchase today
I have narrowed my choice of a firearm to two choices:
Sig P229 or HK USP Compact and in the end I guess it will come down to what just feels the best as it seems that both have an equally loyal following and both seem to have a lot of strengths.
As far as being a CCW what are the strengths and weaknesses vs the two?
Question 1 -
9mm vs 40S&W... I know this would seem a no-brainer but my wife will be picking up the same weapon at home when I am away (I am an airline pilot and am away for days on end).
I worry that a .40 is just too much recoil for her, but by the same token I want to be able to go into memory mode when I fire this weapon if/when the need comes up.
Am I worrying too much about this and should I be willing to do a .40 for me and a 9mm for the house(wife) or just do 9mm all the way around?
I live in Florida so there are many occasions when shorts and a t-shirt are the order of the day. Granted I wear shorts with a belt, but are small-of-the-back holsters good enough for concealment. or would an inside the pants model be better? How are the inside the pants ones for comfort?
August 30th, 2007 06:35 AM
August 30th, 2007 06:54 AM
You and your wife sound somewhat new to shooting, but I could be wrong. If I'm not wrong, then I'd recommend the 9mm instead because your practice ammo will be so much cheaper. Shoot, shoot, shoot, and then shoot some more! A 9mm modern hollow point is just as effective as a 40, in my opinion. Shot placement is more critical, which comes with lots of practice..
But then, if you're an airline pilot, the cost of ammo might not be a big issue for you...
Proud Georgia Firearms Licensee
Springfield Armory XD-9 Subcompact
Bersa Thunder 380
August 30th, 2007 07:07 AM
From another FL resident I would say go with the IWB with a sweat shield, but only from a good holster craftsman. I carry in an Andrews McDaniel II all day here no problem. SOB does carry some back injury risks and for me, at least, it's a little slower on the draw.
With a little practice .40 should be no problem but then there's nothing wrong with a 9mm either. I've seen some pretty petite ladies handle 44 mags. All in the training and practice!
If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.
August 30th, 2007 07:18 AM
USP 40c vs. Sig P229
I own both of these guns in .40 caliber. Both are well made, reliable and accurate. The physical dimensions are quite similar, and they will fit in some of the same holsters. One big difference for CCW is the weight, as the USP 40c weighs about 24 ounces empty, while the Sig P229 weighs 32 ounces empty. This starts to feel significant over the course of carrying the gun for several hours. The extra weight of the Sig is probably an advantage when shooting the gun, however, as it handles the .40 caliber recoil a little better than the USP.
Originally Posted by rgreenpc
My bottom line is that I would rather carry the USP but rather shoot the Sig.
August 30th, 2007 07:25 AM
I would go with 9mm myself based on your background.
I would not recommend SOB (Small of the Back) because the gun is directly over the spine and if you fall on it bad things can happen. I would suggest a normal IWB canted at 15 degrees and in 3 to 4 o'clock.
Also, a good bang for your buck would be buying (in addition) a 22LR semi-auto pistol. Why? You can learn all the same mechanics of the gun, cheap to shoot and will minimize the possible flinching learning by starting with a larger caliber. Suggest a Walter P22.
Congrats on taking your own safety into your hands. Hope this helps.
"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking" - George S. Patton.
August 30th, 2007 07:41 AM
Q1: I've owned a P229.....wonderful gun to shoot and very manageable....for me. I've heard very few negitive words about the USP, but I have no experience with that firearm. I recommend finding a range/shop that'll rent/loan each of the guns, get some ammo, and you and your wife take both of 'em for a "test drive". You both will get a pretty good idea of what's best for the both of you......but be warned, once you go down this road, you'll forever be sucked into the "dark-side" and within a year a couple more firearms will "follow you home", for you and your wife.....then you'll purchase a safe with plenty of room.....then you'll need to fill that room with more.....it's a nasty cycle.
Q2: I love Comp-Tac's MTAC leather/kydex IWB for carry during the summer heat (I live just up the road in SE Georgia).......but holsters are worse for following you home than the side arms and you may end up with a drawer full of holsters before you find that "perfect" one. Take a look at the "holster and accessories" forum and you can make a positive step into what's looks/sounds good to you.
My opinions are just worth .02....but It might be a good start.
"Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008
(Sometimes) "a fight avioded is a fight won." ... claude clay
August 30th, 2007 10:25 AM
August 30th, 2007 10:38 AM
Get what fits. However your wife may find a different gun fits her better. If she is to shoot and carry a gun , let her pick what fits her best. Even if it is a different caliber, brand ,type of gun.
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset
August 30th, 2007 10:46 AM
I have never fired a P229, but do own a couple of other Sig pistols. A friend of mine has a USP in 9mm. It is a nice pistol, but just not my cup of tea. He loves his HK as much as I love my Sigs.
I would definitely go with 9mm. Ammo is a lot cheaper and that means you can practice more. There is all kinds of hype out there about the various calibers, but when it is all said and done we are still talking about hand guns and the difference at the receiving end is not going to be that noticeable. Either caliber will do just fine as long as you put it where it needs to go. As far as the weight difference goes, it's six of one half a dozen of the other. The lighter weight might be a factor for you as far as carry, but the heavier gun will attenuate the recoil more, and theoretically allow faster follow up shots if needed. The heavier gun may also be more comfortable for extended range sessions. If you do decide to buy multiple guns, I would recommend getting two of the same system. They don't necessarily have to be the same caliber. You could get a .40 for yourself and a 9 for your wife if you like. I have three different Sig pistols in two calibers. They all work the same. The controls are all in the same place. I just have to make sure I have the correct magazines with me when I leave the house. Trying reload a P220 or P226 with a P228 magazine could make for a very long afternoon.
August 30th, 2007 10:49 AM
Not to confuse the situation, but as someone previously mentioned, take a look at the P2000. I have small hands and the P2000 fits my hand like a glove. Much better than the USPc. The advantage the P2000 has over the USP is that the slide is thinner (their website specs are misleading) and it has the interchangeable backstraps for grip. It is available in 9mm & .40
August 30th, 2007 10:50 AM
I'm NOT fanning the embers of a caliber flame (they happen around here pretty regularly) but ammo technology (powders, bullet design, etc.) is increasingly making the 9mm?.40S&W?.45 ACP? debate less & less significant. I've heard, read & followed all the arguments and between size, capacity, weight, speed, penetration, recoil, follow-up shots, expansion, etc., etc...it's simply a jump-ball. Between the 9mm & .40S&W it's even closer. Get the 9mm.
As for brand/model selection, nothing is more subjective or generates more fierce loyalty and/or complete contempt. Both you and your wife should handle (ideally rent & shoot) any pistols you're considering. The two pistols you've mentioned are of premium quality with a well-deserved reputation of excellence. But there are lots of pistols meeting that criteria. If you'll take your time there WILL be one that both of you shoot & say "yeeaahhh, THIS is the ONE". Buy that one. Then both of you get some top-flight instruction & practice, practice, practice.
Welcome to The Forum!
There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.
August 30th, 2007 11:04 AM
As noted above I would go with the 9mm. It is cheaper to shoot and not as snappy recoil wise.
Practice will make all the difference not caliber size. IMO there is not that much difference between 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP with mordern hollowpoints. All 3 will perform if we perform correctly.
Carry options are many and varied. I am not a fan of SOB carry, because you risk sweeping yourself with the muzzle when you draw and possible injury in a fall.
IWB strongside a 3-4 o'clock is much better IMO. Plus you can look into a tuckable IWB,Smartcarry, Bellybands and other carry options.
“You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”
― Robert A. Heinlein,
August 30th, 2007 11:19 AM
Thanks for all of the help folks, as well as giving me another firearm to look at... (ok disregard the thank you on that one for now )
My wife and I are going Friday to a local range/store in the Tampa area to "rent" the various guns, and I have confirmed they have the P2000 as well (but not the PSP).
Perhaps I will try the 9 and 40 in one gun and then just try one ammo size on the others. Its not as much of an issue for me as I am more concerned with my wife, but I did talk to a female FHP office today and she uses a 40S&W and she isn't "much" bigger than my wife, so there is hope. I think its more a psychological issue for her more than anything.
Her carry will be in a purse but as she is a state employee, she can't have the weapon at work on her person or in the car so her carry will be limited to weekends and travel. Mine will be 24/7 pretty much.
I do have two more questions now though...
1. Lasermax internal laser - thoughts?
2. Load choices for personal defense - I haven't used or even held a firearm a few years (ok, more than a few) but back in the day hydroshock was all the rage. What is the "best" round currently?
I want to testfire the rounds I intend to use so that I have an accurate comparison.
Ok... actually 3 questions... which of the (now three) pistols is better for day-to-day concealed carry?
August 30th, 2007 12:10 PM
If the three you are considering are the Sig P229, the H&K USP compact and the H&K P2000, I would personally go with the H&K P2000SK, which is the compact version of the P2000 that holds about 10 rounds. The 9mm vs. .40 caliber choice is your call, based on trying each one - they both work if you can shoot accurately. I think the P2000SK would be the easiest of the three to conceal and carry all day (I have handled the gun but not shot it).
Originally Posted by rgreenpc
As for ammo, the current thinking is that Federal Hydrashocks are more prone to plugging up on clothing and not expanding properly than some other choices. Good current choices might include Speer Gold Dots or Remington Golden Sabers. If you are in .40 caliber, I personally like the 155 grain bullet with muzzle velocity of about 1200 fps - it will give you 500 foot-lbs. of muzzle energy.
Here is the H&K P2000 SK:
August 30th, 2007 12:38 PM
Please update us on which gun(s) you ultimately select. As far as ammo goes. My preference is for Corbon DPX, Speer GoldDots, and Winchester Ranger-T.
I carry Speer GD Short-Barrel 180gr in my P2000, and Ranger-T 124gr +p in my G19.
This is info taken from Tactical Forums...
The following loads all demonstrate outstanding terminal performance and can be considered acceptable for duty/self-defense use:
Barnes XPB 105 & 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester Partition Gold 124 gr JHP (RA91P)
Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)
Barnes XPB 140 & 155 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Speer Gold Dot 155 gr JHP
Federal Tactical 165 gr JHP (LE40T3)
Winchester Ranger-T 165 gr JHP (RA40TA)
Winchester Partition Gold 165 gr JHP (RA401P)
Federal HST 180 gr JHP (P40HST1)
Federal Tactical 180 gr JHP (LE40T1)
Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
Speer Gold Dot 180 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 180 gr JHP (RA40T)
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