September 18th, 2007 10:00 AM
EAA Witness 10mm
Right now I'm looking at the option of getting another carry gun...specifically a stout, big bore, metal framed but compact pistol. I've got a lot of criteria, including price, action style, and other things, but I narrowed it down to the Bersa Thunder 45, and the EAA Witness Steel Compact in either .45acp or 10mm.
I did a comparison chart (sorry if the layout doesn't work!):
Bersa Thunder 45 Witness 45 Witness 10mm
CALIBER: .45 ACP . 45 ACP 10mm
OAL: 6.7" 7.3” 7.3”
HEIGHT: 4.9" 4.5” 4.5”
WIDTH: 1.4" 1.4” 1.4”
BARREL LENGTH: 3.6" 3.6” 3.6”
WEIGHT: 27 oz 29 oz 30 oz
MAG CAPACITY: 7+1 8+1 12+1
MSRP: $480.00 $489.00 $489.00
Basically I'm all but sold on the Witness 10mm. That is a high powered cartridge, definitely, and it has higher capacity. And I could always get a conversion kit to 45 if I wanted for about 200.
I'm just wondering if people here have a lot of experience with the Witness series. I really like the CZ style. The flipside is that I know how much I like the Bersa Thunder 380, so I wondered if I should stick with the same maker, or if the Thunder 45 was substantially different.
Anyhow, just a few questions in case there are Tanfoglio or Bersa 45 owners around!
September 18th, 2007 10:19 AM
There are several here who have or have had EAA 10mm pistols. Most have the full sized model and several who bought the compact version recommend staying away from them. I'm sure they will chime in when they see this thread.
On the Bersa, I have not had nor used the .45, but I can tell you that it is a completely different design than the .380. The .380 is blowback operated and the .45 is recoil operated.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. Albert Einstein
September 18th, 2007 10:30 AM
I have personally (face to face) heard some some dissatisfied EAA 10mm buyers as well. But I've heard good stuff about the Bersa .45. Ya' pays ya' money...Ya' takes ya' chances. Good Luck & let us know.
There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.
September 18th, 2007 11:41 AM
I bought a Bersa .45 to save a few bucks....
I also bought their Thunder .380. My opinion: both are good guns that I've put quite a lot of rounds through with few problems.
And both now sit in the safe cleaned, oiled and with little chance of coming out again.
My Glock 30 is a much better compact .45, IMNSHO, and my G26 is everything the .380 wants to be, but isn't.
We are not talking about huge price differentials either, like $160, maybe.
I've got 28 empty ammo containers in my garage, almost all them once holding 9mm or 45ACP. And all from the same source. Never had one FTF or FTE with the Glocks, probably a dozen with the Bersa .45.
YMMV, good luck.
September 18th, 2007 01:48 PM
I've got two Witness 10mm's. One is full-sized polymer frame. It's a gift from Heaven Above. Accurate, reliable and it was cheap. A good gun and a great value.
I've also got an all-steel Witness Compact. It jams at least once with every clip. And I've tried everything under the sun to make it reliable. Believe me.
I'm not upset about it, though- I figured that was just the chance I took when I bought it. 10mm is hard on guns, especially smaller ones, and Witness Compacts are hit-or-miss propositions, which is why they are relatively inexpensive.
If you get a good one, you've really got yourself something worth having.
"...bad decisions that turn out well often make heroes."
Gary D. Mitchell, A Sniper's Journey: The Truth About the Man and the Rifle, P. 103, NAL Caliber books, 2006, 1st Ed.
September 18th, 2007 03:40 PM
Well as a Kel-Tec fan, I'm certainly accustomed to the emotionally draining exercise of having to work a little harder for reliability, so I wouldn't necessarily expect out-of-the-box perfection. But I do see your point that 10mm is a lot to expect out of a small gun. My gunsmith, who is also probably the one who would order and sell me the gun (he is the only EAA dealer in town) swears up and down they are great guns, so maybe he'd be more willing to help get it running if it is a lemon. The big qualm I have with them is that unlike Kel-Tec, they have a reputation for really hostile and poor customer service.
Worst case scenario, if 10mm proves to be unworkable, maybe a swap to the 45acp slide would fix it? I don't know, I just like the idea of a compact 10mm CZ-style. Too bad it is often a bit of a crapshoot...
September 18th, 2007 10:39 PM
I had a full-sized, blued, steel-framed Witness 10mm that gave me problems, but mostly due to the mags and not the gun per se...traded it off....I wish I hadn't.
I "replaced" the gun with a full-sized, Wonderfinished, steel-framed Witness .38 Super....no problems with the gun at all....accurate too!
USAF: Loving Our Obscene Amenities Since 1947
September 19th, 2007 02:07 AM
I have a Witness compact (TAC II with ported barrel/slide and Novak sights) in .40 S&W. It's not a .45 or 10mm, but close enough to both for working purposes, and think it is an outstanding buy for the money. I would recommend them in a heartbeat. Accurate, reliable, VERY well made and reasonably priced. I saw a Witness compact in 10mm last month at a local gun show for $350 and ALMOST got it just because it was such a good deal. I think someone else bought it a few minutes after I left the dealers tables, so it didn't last long.
OTOH, I've owned a Bersa UC-45 for over 3 years and would also recommend it to anyone who is looking for a compact, DA/SA pistol at a reasonable price (they were selling at the same show for $360). They are VERY similar operationally and in look/feel to a compact SIG and are the most lefty friendly gun you'll ever find if that is a concern for you. I had some problems with weak recoil springs when I first got the gun that caused it to have some FTF and eject malfunctions, but a new set of springs (free from the importer) took care of the problem and I've put about 1,000 rds through it since with no problems. FWIW, if you have small hands or short fingers, you may have some problems with the grip's thickness since it is a double stack 45. Otherwise, I think it's a joy to shoot compared to most 45's, is easy to break down for cleaning (about 10 seconds) and it comes with a life time warranty from Bersa. I personally prefer the UC-9 due to it's slightly slimmer grip and the fact it holds 13 + 1 compared to the 45's 7 + 1, but otherwise they are the same gun.
"... Americans... we want a safe home, to keep the money we make and shoot bad guys." -- Denny Crane
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