cocked and locked 1911: dangerous?

This is a discussion on cocked and locked 1911: dangerous? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by limatunes ...My rational is that the 1911 has been carried cocked and locked for almost 100 years by THOUSANDS of Saliors, Soliders, ...

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Thread: cocked and locked 1911: dangerous?

  1. #61
    Member Array dsonyay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    ...My rational is that the 1911 has been carried cocked and locked for almost 100 years by THOUSANDS of Saliors, Soliders, Marines, Airmen, Police Officers, Civilians, Moms, Dads, Preachers, Criminals and everyone else I missed...
    I prefer cocked and locked for carry, and it seems so much safer than my loaded revolver that I'm more comfortable with the 1911.

    Regarding your rationale about the 1911 being carried cocked and locked for by sailors. Not true. Sailors commonly carried the 1911 with a loaded mag and empty chamber and hammer down (at least during the 20yrs I was around sailors carrying any weapon.)

    Heck even the last few years on active duty before retiring the Beretta was carried that way too. When sailors went off duty, they'd stick the weapon in a safe discharge contraption, drop the mag, cycle the slide, and pull the trigger. Every now and then "BOOM"- they'd get it wrong and fire a round into the safety device.

    I was in the Navy from 87-07 and I've never seen any of these pistols carried cocked and locked (1911) nor with a loaded chamber and decocked (9mm).
    On the battlefield- different story.

    It's kinda sad that the Navy doesn't train sailors to carry a weapon properly and then trust them to do so.
    David
    from LA


    I have 5 guns.

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  3. #62
    VIP Member Array SatCong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsonyay View Post
    I prefer cocked and locked for carry, and it seems so much safer than my loaded revolver that I'm more comfortable with the 1911.

    Regarding your rationale about the 1911 being carried cocked and locked for by sailors. Not true. Sailors commonly carried the 1911 with a loaded mag and empty chamber and hammer down (at least during the 20yrs I was around sailors carrying any weapon.)

    Heck even the last few years on active duty before retiring the Beretta was carried that way too. When sailors went off duty, they'd stick the weapon in a safe discharge contraption, drop the mag, cycle the slide, and pull the trigger. Every now and then "BOOM"- they'd get it wrong and fire a round into the safety device.

    I was in the Navy from 87-07 and I've never seen any of these pistols carried cocked and locked (1911) nor with a loaded chamber and decocked (9mm).
    On the battlefield- different story.

    It's kinda sad that the Navy doesn't train sailors to carry a weapon properly and then trust them to do so.
    I was GMG 3 in 1967-68 and I carry it cock & lock!

  4. #63
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    As I sit here at the computer, there is a 1911 beside me in condition 1. It's like that every day. I keep watching it to see if the trigger is going to suddenly move.

    So far, it just sits there. No amount of verbal encouragement on my part will make it drop it's hammer.

    I have come to the conclusion that it will just sit there until the Second Coming with the hammer back unless I release the thumb safety, engage the grip safety and pull the trigger.

  5. #64
    Member Array dsonyay's Avatar
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    Same here!

    Quote Originally Posted by 1911packer View Post
    As I sit here at the computer, there is a 1911 beside me in condition 1. It's like that every day. I keep watching it to see if the trigger is going to suddenly move.

    So far, it just sits there. No amount of verbal encouragement on my part will make it drop it's hammer.

    I have come to the conclusion that it will just sit there until the Second Coming with the hammer back unless I release the thumb safety, engage the grip safety and pull the trigger.
    David
    from LA


    I have 5 guns.

  6. #65
    Member Array dsonyay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SatCong View Post
    I was GMG 3 in 1967-68 and I carry it cock & lock!
    I'm curious, because I wasn't in the Navy back then, but did you guys normally carry the 1911 cocked and locked when on duty? Like pier sentry, quarterdeck watches, etc? The 20 yrs I was in (87-2007) no one was allowed to carry in cond 1.

    I wonder when it was that the 1911 was changed from being carried in cond 1. Was it ever carried that way under "normal" situations (by that I mean other than on the battlefield).

    I know a lot about the 1911 from reading books and such, but I don't know much about when the controversy over how it is carried started.
    David
    from LA


    I have 5 guns.

  7. #66
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    Is condition 1 dangerous? yeah, to the guy on the other end.

    Seriously, I don't feel that it's any more or less dangerous than any other weapon if you taken the time to become proficient with your weapon of choice. (IMO, the only method that is "dangerous" is condition 3...because you're carrying an unloaded gun)

    BTW: I carried a 1911 in condition 1 for about 2 years at work with no misgivings whatsoever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Herknav
    Retired Texas Ranger Lee Young said it best (in answer to the same exact question). "If it weren't dangerous, I wouldn't be carrying it."
    Quote Originally Posted by OD View Post
    I believe you're thinking of Texas Ranger Charlie Miller.
    When ask "isn't that dangerous?" He replied, " I wouldn't carry the son of a bit** if it wasn't dangerous."
    actually, I think it was Texas Ranger Manuel Gonzaulles (sp?)...IIRC, he carried his cocked with the safety off, the front of the trigger guards ground off, and his holsters cut down so that the triggers were not covered. Not a method that's advisable for everyone, but then again, from what I've read, the guy survived an estimated 40+ gunfights.

    who knows...doesnt' really matter. The sentiment is the part that counts
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

    If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

    Matt K.

  8. #67
    OD*
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    Manuel Trazazas "Lone Wolf" Gonzaullas.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Diligentia Vis Celeritas"

  9. #68
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OD View Post
    Manuel Trazazas "Lone Wolf" Gonzaullas.
    yep...can't ever remember how to spell it.
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

    If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

    Matt K.

  10. #69
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    If you need to ask, you do not know and understand the 1911.There is more info available on the 1911 than any other handgun.Condition 1 is how it's carried.That makes it STILL the premier combat weapon in the hands of an expert.

  11. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoTex View Post

    actually, I think it was Texas Ranger Manuel Gonzaulles (sp?)...IIRC, he carried his cocked with the safety off, the front of the trigger guards ground off, and his holsters cut down so that the triggers were not covered. Not a method that's advisable for everyone, but then again, from what I've read, the guy survived an estimated 40+ gunfights.

    who knows...doesnt' really matter. The sentiment is the part that counts
    If you Google Texas Ranger Charles Edward Miller, I believe you will find he is credited with the "isn't that dangerous?" quote.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Diligentia Vis Celeritas"

  12. #71
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    That Texas Ranger saying is certainly making the rounds. One of you guys is bound to be right. My source is from an old Guns & Ammo Annual attributing it to Frank Hamer and was from a feature article on him from the late '70s or early '80's so may be suspect.

    "As I sit here at the computer, there is a 1911 beside me in condition 1. It's like that every day. I keep watching it to see if the trigger is going to suddenly move."

    That struck me funny 1911packer and made me chortle here at my desk.

  13. #72
    Member Array Hume's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsonyay View Post
    Sailors commonly carried the 1911 with a loaded mag and empty chamber and hammer down (at least during the 20yrs I was around sailors carrying any weapon.)
    You are correct, sir. The U.S. Military instructed most of their personnel to carry the 1911 in Condition Three (hammer down on an empty chamber, loaded mag in mag well). Condition One (round chambered, cocked and locked) was reserved for moments of eminent use in combat.

    BTW, thank you for reminding me the Beretta 92 is now carried the same way. I have heard the same stories about the safe discharge contraption and the unintentional discharges. Interesting.

    As for the military's rationale for this type of carry, I think it is because the military has a traditon that sees the pistol as a backup weapon to shoulder arms. Its use is reserved to a stopgap measure. In most circumstances, there is time to chamber a round to confront a threat.

  14. #73
    Senior Member Array Beans's Avatar
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    Old war story.

    I was a rookie partolman, (1975) having just been medically discharged from the USMC, and 4 of us answered a B&E call at a warehouse. Our issued weapon was a S&W model 15 and we were required to carry it as a duty weapon. However the department did not have any restrictions on the back up weapons that were carried.

    Upon discharged I had purchased a satin chrome 45 acp Colt combat commander

    Before entrying the warehouse The Sgt gave us our warning orders. He was armed only with the Model 15. The other two patrolman were also Viet Nam vets.

    That made 3 out of the 4 that were combat vets

    He took a look at us and his eyes got bigger.

    I was armed with the Colt Combat Commander.
    Officer Kolb was armed with a Colt Govt Model
    and Officer Reed was armed with a Colt Gold Cup.
    All in 45 ACP

    The S&W model 15 remained holstered

    We had chosen to carry our back up weapons into the warehouse instead of the issued model 15's.

    The Sgt remark was " OK! it looks like we're ready to go"

    We always carried the Colts L&C off duty and as back up weapons

    BTW the warehouse was empty the "Perps" had fled before we arrived

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    I would for sure have grabbed the Colt Commander myself.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  16. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    I would for sure have grabbed the Colt Commander myself.

    Without a doubt.
    Les Baer 45
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