Glock 17, Sig 229 DAK, Beretta PX4 and 92FS side by side

This is a discussion on Glock 17, Sig 229 DAK, Beretta PX4 and 92FS side by side within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Just in the last two days, I ran 500 rounds through the aforementioned guns to see which worked the best for me . I was ...

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Thread: Glock 17, Sig 229 DAK, Beretta PX4 and 92FS side by side

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    Glock 17, Sig 229 DAK, Beretta PX4 and 92FS side by side

    Just in the last two days, I ran 500 rounds through the aforementioned guns to see which worked the best for me. I was surprised – sort of, but there is no doubt in my mind which worked the best for me.

    I do this about once a year because it’s fun, challenging, and enlightening. The previous time I did this I shot a Sig 229 DA/SA, Sig 226 DA/SA, Glock 17, Glock 19, XD, H&K USP, and a Beretta 92FS. I shot them in much the same way I did this time, and to my surprise, I shot the Sig 229 a bit better than any of the others.

    About the guns. The Glock 17 had Trijicon sights, everything else stock. The Sig DAK, all stock with Siglite night sights. The PX4 was stock with factory luminescent sights, and the 92 had a D spring in place of the stock hammer spring, stock sights but with tritium tubes installed by Trijicon.

    I shot the guns in pairs, 10 shots through each gun in 5 shot strings switching to the other gun after 10 rounds. I did this hoping to keep the playing field as even as possible and not be fresher shooting one gun than the other.

    As a total diversion from my normal regimented ‘defensive’ shooting on B-27s, for some reason I chose to shoot coke cans that were laying all over the range at various distances, many looked to be unshot; Dingers at 75 yards in the shape and size of a standard IDPA cardboard target; and yellow gallon milk jugs at 70 yards.

    A legitimate question would be does this really prove anything? Well, I think it does. I think the random target sizes and distances add something to the exercise. For one we can’t just lock in on one distance and target style and shoot. The dingers at 75 yards are about 20” x 30” as I recall and if you scale that down to 25 feet, the target would be about 2.2” x 3.3”

    The first day I ran 300 rounds through the PX4 and 92FS. The PX4 shoots about an inch low and it’s done that from the start. So far I have been unable to determine why, but that sure put a damper on it for me.

    The 92 FS, what can I say? I love this gun. It shoots where you aim, reliable as day following night, and one of the softest recoiling guns I’ve shot.

    The next day I ran 200 rounds through the G-17 and Sig 229 DAK. The Glock 17 is a Glock, it works; it’s a service gun and worthy to be called such for its reliability, ruggedness, and accuracy.

    But, the Sig 229 DAK, literally blew them all away. The sights have a lot of light on either side, enhancing rapid target pickup. The thing is just deadly accurate. I knew by the time I had fired the first 5 volleys, the Sig 229 DAK was way ahead – for me.

    Here’s some things I did with it. Coke cans from 15 to 30 yards were a piece of cake. I missed some but, hit far, far more than I missed. I could shoot right at the bottom of the can and send them sailing, then do it again.

    The dingers were pretty easy. I shot at a milk jug at 70 yards and it toppled over. I fired three more times and it wiggled and rolled each time. I missed the fifth shot. Of course it’s possible that I was hitting in front of it and bouncing into it or spraying it with debris. But the dust didn’t indicate that was what was happening. The dust was flying behind the milk jug. I’ve also done this with a full size M&P and I wished I had brought it along.

    I guess the thing that surprised me was the effectiveness of the DAK trigger. I was really expecting that to be somewhat of a disadvantage. It proved to be an advantage. The thing I noticed about it was that it was smooth all the way through with just a bit of stacking before the break, but not like SA with a distinct stop point and break point. It really gave a surprise break on the shot which I found to be a big asset.

    Anyway, that’s the one that worked significantly better for me. It is interesting that the Sig 229 DA/SA did a bit better in the previous test, even against it’s big brother, the 226.
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    Buy a Sig is my choice.
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    Hmmm, I may have given an incorrect impression - the guns are mine.
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    I'm suprised you're suprised that you shoot the best gun out of the group the best.
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    Hmmm, SIXTO, that surprised me that you were surprised that I was surprised. i mean you being a Glock guy and all.

    I think what the deal is that I've shot DA/SA for sooooo long, Sig, H&Ks, Berettas, that I thought that's the best system for me. But after re-evaluating, at this point it seems that the DAK trigger system works best for me.

    Tuesday, I'm gonna do some B-27 work with the 229 DAK. Plus, I suspect the DAK trigger won't support quite as high of a rate of fire as DA/SA. But, if it turns out that if I release the SA trigger mode significantly past the reset point, there may not be any difference in the rate of fire.

    For a while I trained to just release to the reset to maximize the rate of fire, but one day it finally dawned on me what a really bad idea that is. It's fine to go for minimum reset in competition, but I think from a SD/tactical perspective it is really a bad idea.

    I got to thinking about this when I was told that Rob Leatham fully releases his trigger to the point his finger actually leaves the trigger. I can't confirm that, but it did get me to thinking. In a gunfight, one just cannot afford to short-stoke the trigger.

    If one trained regularly, and I do, it would probably be ok, but it's just too much of a risk. Now why did I say all that?

    Hmmmm.....uuuuhhh....., Oh yeah, to say that the DAK trigger may not slow down the rate of fire IF i'm doing a tactical trigger release as I believe I should be.
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    I never do well with the DAK trigger, but a lot of guys I know love it.

    I got a 228 I'm working on now, its going to get the SRT installed when I get around to it. I cant wait to ditch my G23 and go back to a 228 for CC.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    SIXTO,

    I own Glocks, Sigs, Berettas, H&Ks, and M&P, XDs, 1911s, well I built the 1911s, and a BHP. I started out with a Sig 229 and went to a 226, but for some odd reason I left them and began vascillating mostly between H&Ks, Glocks, Beretta 92, and the M&P. It drives me crazy. Now after seeing how well I shoot the DAK trigger, and I have always thought Sig's reliability was the best, bar none, maybe I'm about to settle into the DAK system. But I already know if future range time produces the same results as today, I'll get a P226 with a DAK trigger - I think.

    Oh and I'm enough of a man that I don't need the ego boost lesser men need from .40s. So I shoot the optimal round, 9mm. I bet that'll get about as many rebuttals as your statement about dumping your G-23.
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    You caught on to me huh?

    The G23 is a good gun, but I tend to agree that 9mm in a compact gun such as the 229/8 is the optimal choice. I know that I can do whatever I need to do with the 228, but I never have the same level of confidence with the G23.

    Strange thing is, when I move to a full size platform, I much prefer a .45 over 9mm or .40.
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    Awww, I's just raggin' everybody.

    Seriously, I have as much confidence in a 9mm in a solid performing SD round as any other caliber. I suspect part of that is because I shoot quite a bit and, the secret's coming out now, 9mm is so much cheaper to shoot than .40 or .45 or .357 sig.

    Right now Walmart's 9mm $15 and some change. You can add up how much it cost to shoot 200 rounds a week. I shot 500 rounds in this evaluation alone in two days. That cost me $75. It really didn't, I shot ammo I've had for a number of years and didn't pay nearly that for it. But I will have to replace it at the higher price.

    I figure for no more difference than there is in performance of modern 9mm, .40, .357, & .45, I can shoot a lot more, and get a lot better, and more than make up for any differences caliber could make with shot placement.

    Well, that's the 'B' theory. 'A' theory is get the heck out of there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    But, the Sig 229 DAK, literally blew them all away. The sights have a lot of light on either side, enhancing rapid target pickup. The thing is just deadly accurate. I knew by the time I had fired the first 5 volleys, the Sig 229 DAK was way ahead
    Tangle, what is the DAK trigger? Thanks.

    Ron
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    Ron
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    Don't mean to hijack this thread, but can someone list the semi-automatic pistols that have a 9mm DAO model?

    Thanks.

    Ron
    "It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."

    J. R. R. Tolkien

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    The DAK is Sig's latest DAO trigger. It features a smooth, long, consistent pull and breaks at about 6.5 lbs. It feels even lighter.

    It also has an interesting short reset that you can use at your discretion. The shorter reset produces a bit heavier trigger pull, but the trigger is further to the rear and a bit easier to pull.

    Sig has always had a DAO, but it has been a modified DA/SA trigger, or more accurately, a modified hammer without the SA notch. The problem with this set up is the long heavy trigger - something like 10+ pounds.
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    As for the DAO, there are a bunch of them. Plus, there are some striker fired guns that are called DAO, but sometimes feel like SAO. The H&K LEM is purportedly a DAO, but to me it feels exactly like a SA with a lot of take up.

    The XD and the M&P are considered a SA, but they feel like a DAO. Glocks fare classified as a DAO, and they feel like DAO.

    I'm sure our members will know about a lot more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    The XD and the M&P are considered a SA, but they feel like a DAO. Glocks fare classified as a DAO, and they feel like DAO.
    I have to wonder why the M&P is considered a single action. It is very clear that the trigger has to finish cocking the striker before the sear releases it, just like Glocks.

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