Unreliable 3 inch 1911s - Urban Legend? - Page 7

Unreliable 3 inch 1911s - Urban Legend?

This is a discussion on Unreliable 3 inch 1911s - Urban Legend? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; A good indication of recoil spring fatigue is when your ejected brass starts sailing further. When it starts really flinging out there then (for sure) ...

Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst ... 34567
Results 91 to 100 of 100
Like Tree1Likes

Thread: Unreliable 3 inch 1911s - Urban Legend?

  1. #91
    Administrator
    Array QKShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Off Of The X
    Posts
    35,873
    A good indication of recoil spring fatigue is when your ejected brass starts sailing further.
    When it starts really flinging out there then (for sure) change the spring.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ


  2. #92
    VIP Member Array SpringerXD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Southeast
    Posts
    2,026
    This is my first post here (great forum, by the way). I've had a Colt Defender .45ACP for about a year and a half now. I love it and will never get rid of it, but there is one issue: it doesn't like hollowpoints, which are my preferred carry round. I can feed hardball all day, but I almost never make it through two consecutive mags of hollowpoints.

    So, I just bought an XD Compact .45 for daily carry. It loves both hollowpoints and hardball.

    I have my own theory about the 3-inchers. If I take a very firm grip, it's less likely to jam, as opposed to "limp wristing." My theory is that the difference is in the physics and weight of the slide. I don't have any input about the recoil spring not catching up or whatever, but it makes sense to me.

    Hold an unloaded 1911 in your hands and pretend that you've just fired it, and visualize the motion that the slide goes through. In looking at this, it makes sense to me that the lighter slide on a 3-incher gets interrupted in its path by too much upward "flip" on the muzzle. The standard 5-inchers have enough slide weight on the forward motion (back to battery) to get them there, while the 3-inchers need more of a straight plane of motion.

    Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it!


  3. #93
    VIP Member Array Ti Carry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Under Cover
    Posts
    2,035
    SpringerXd,

    Wouldn't it also make sense that the shorter, lighter slide of a 3" 1911 with the same power/grain of ammo used would prove to move the slide back much easier/quicker even with the added muzzle flip?


    Ti
    Train and train hard, you might not get a second chance to make a first impression!

    I vote for Monica Lewinsky's Ex-Boyfriend's Wife for President.....Not!

  4. #94
    VIP Member Array SpringerXD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Southeast
    Posts
    2,026
    Quote Originally Posted by Ti Carry View Post
    SpringerXd,

    Wouldn't it also make sense that the shorter, lighter slide of a 3" 1911 with the same power/grain of ammo used would prove to move the slide back much easier/quicker even with the added muzzle flip?


    Ti
    I could see it going either way, but what I'm thinking is that both the larger and smaller slides are blown back with *almost* equal force by the exploded round (I'm sure there's a physics formula for this). But on the way back forward, the greater weight of the longer slide has more inertia going for it.

    But by the same token, the recoil spring would send a smaller slide forward more quickly, with all other things being equal, which tends to blow my whole argument there.



    So that's why I suspect that it's basically the difference in the amount of muzzle rise in the 3-inchers which throws the balance off.


  5. #95
    Senior Member Array Rustynuts's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    777
    You guys are on the right track, just missing it a little. You the total force by the cartridge is the same, but with the old conservation of momentum, F=MA thing, the slides will accelerate at different rates. With a smaller/lighter slide it will come back quicker AND flip harder (assuming the overall weight forward of the grip is lighter too), then depending on the spring poundage, the smaller/lighter slide "MAY" also try to come back quicker. However, there's more than one thing going on naturally.

    With the hard flip, the slide is not moving straight back but its momentum tries to keep it level. That causes more force on the sliding contacts of the slide, which in turn cause it to slow down through increased friction. The flipping motion of the muzzle also affects the incoming round, essentially flipping the nose of the round off the mag as soon as it starts moving past the mag lips, instead of a nice straight strip by the slide. This is most likely the cause of a lot of 3-point and vertical FTF's.

    Due to the punishment 3" springs take, they don't last long in any of them. I just had to replace my Kimber's at around 4-500 rds. I could actually feel it cycle slower and started to have it fail to go fully into battery. New spring, no more problems! You definitely have to hold onto those suckers.

  6. #96
    VIP Member Array SpringerXD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Southeast
    Posts
    2,026
    Quote Originally Posted by Rustynuts View Post
    You guys are on the right track, just missing it a little. You the total force by the cartridge is the same, but with the old conservation of momentum, F=MA thing, the slides will accelerate at different rates. With a smaller/lighter slide it will come back quicker AND flip harder (assuming the overall weight forward of the grip is lighter too), then depending on the spring poundage, the smaller/lighter slide "MAY" also try to come back quicker. However, there's more than one thing going on naturally.

    With the hard flip, the slide is not moving straight back but its momentum tries to keep it level. That causes more force on the sliding contacts of the slide, which in turn cause it to slow down through increased friction. The flipping motion of the muzzle also affects the incoming round, essentially flipping the nose of the round off the mag as soon as it starts moving past the mag lips, instead of a nice straight strip by the slide. This is most likely the cause of a lot of 3-point and vertical FTF's.

    Due to the punishment 3" springs take, they don't last long in any of them. I just had to replace my Kimber's at around 4-500 rds. I could actually feel it cycle slower and started to have it fail to go fully into battery. New spring, no more problems! You definitely have to hold onto those suckers.
    Thanks for the info. Now a question..... several months ago, I called Colt and tried to buy a recoil spring for the Defender. The lady said that they were backordered, BUT..... she stepped back into the Service Department, got one, and sent it to me for free! Their service is top notch.

    Anyway, since I bought the Defender used, I have no idea how many rounds have been put through it and, therefore, no idea about the life of the spring.

    I haven't yet replaced the spring. Do you think that doing so would help it in feeding hollowpoints or would that be totally irrelevant? It does okay with hardball.

  7. #97
    VIP Member Array Ti Carry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Under Cover
    Posts
    2,035
    This is the part I disagree with, at least in my experience with my Kimber Ultra CDP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rustynuts View Post
    Due to the punishment 3" springs take, they don't last long in any of them. I just had to replace my Kimber's at around 4-500 rds. I could actually feel it cycle slower and started to have it fail to go fully into battery. New spring, no more problems! You definitely have to hold onto those suckers.
    I picked this up from "The Sight" M1911A1 as a back up.

    The dual recoil spring system is the key component which permits Kimber to produce a .45 ACP with a three inch barrel. If I have my facts in order, this approach was originated by Larry Seecamp for his small .32 ACP pistol. This system (Kimber uses a Wolff spring system) retards the speed of the velocity of the slide, in order to allow time for the magazine spring to properly position the round to be chambered.
    I am not sure about the other none CDP 3" Kimbers (as this is a write up on on the UCDP as well as a couple of others in the same article) but the CDP uses Wolff springs and I can tell you I have 1,200 rds through mine and it still feel's like it did when new. I have no issues with the reciol spring as of yet.

    Source: http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/review/chriskimber.htm


    Ti
    Train and train hard, you might not get a second chance to make a first impression!

    I vote for Monica Lewinsky's Ex-Boyfriend's Wife for President.....Not!

  8. #98
    Member Array dogngun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Berks County, PA
    Posts
    48
    In the past, I have owned several ARMSCOR-made 1911's, Rock Island and Charles Daly brands and found them to be extremely reliable, rugged pistols.
    Last August, I bought a used Charles Daly Officer's/Compact 1911, and I have been carrying it nearly ever since the first time I took it to the range.
    It has been reliable and more accurate than I would have thought.
    I keep hearing the "short guns don't run" stuff, but mine has been running with the big dogs and I have not replaced or "improved" it at all.
    There was a Colt Defender for sale at the same time, but I found it too light -I find a steel frame is more easily controlled.

    FWIW, I bought my first 1911 in 1972 and have owned and shot and carried a few different ones since.

    mark

  9. #99
    Member Array LeatherNeck1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    75
    My Kimber UCII is my most carried pistol. It did take roughly 800 rounds to get it running proprerly though. Now its as reliable as any firearm I own. I believe that Kimber advises you change out the recoil spring every 3000 rounds. I've also noticed that the short barrel 1911s don't do well with limp wristing. I practice with this piece frequently so I know how it shoots and what to expect with recoil. One of my friends however, cannot shoot my Kimber without getting some sort of failure. He is so scared of the .45 in a small package that he trembles before he even fires the 1st round. This could account for some of the problems we've all read about.




  10. #100
    New Member Array rocketgeezer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Knox TN
    Posts
    7
    I have tryed 3 differant 1911s Kimber Ultra, Para slim hog, and a Sig ultra compact, if I had the patence, and I do not, I may have tryed to work with the Kimber or the Sig, but I really feel I was screwed with the Para, they were all unreliable, the Para so much so it was almost used for a target, the cost I have incured between the guns and break in ammo is nuts, should have pitched the idea after the first, but I wanted a 3 1911, but not any more

Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst ... 34567

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Springfield Loaded 5-inch, same holster(s) as Colt 5-inch 1911?
    By SpringerXD in forum Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: March 6th, 2011, 03:38 PM
  2. What to do with unreliable gun?
    By RogerThat in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 74
    Last Post: January 3rd, 2010, 12:51 PM
  3. 11 year old girl defends home- Urban Legend - Closed
    By Pro2A in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: March 29th, 2008, 09:27 PM
  4. unreliable 870
    By catfish hunter in forum Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: March 25th, 2008, 05:58 PM
  5. Fact or Urban (CCW) Legend ?
    By TexasGeezer in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 58
    Last Post: July 26th, 2007, 11:32 PM

Search tags for this page

1911 live round stovepipe
,

3 inch 1911

,
are 3 inch 1911's reliable
,

are 3 inch 1911s reliable

,
failure to feed stove piped
,
live round stovepipe
,
makers of 3 inch 1911
,
most reliable 3 inch 1911
,
pictures of a colt 1911 with 3 inch barrel
,

stove pipe with 1911 3 inch barrels

,
urban legend holsters
,
?????? defender33
Click on a term to search for related topics.