caliber vs. number of rounds

This is a discussion on caliber vs. number of rounds within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Everyone agrees that bigger bullets at higher velocities, other things equal, are better. Everyone also agrees that that more rounds are better, other things equal. ...

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 62

Thread: caliber vs. number of rounds

  1. #1
    Member Array chiefs-special-guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    alabama
    Posts
    347

    caliber vs. number of rounds

    Everyone agrees that bigger bullets at higher velocities, other things equal, are better. Everyone also agrees that that more rounds are better, other things equal. I have a confession- I am an economist. (Sorry!) In economics, we have a concept- the "marginal rate of substitution" (mrs) which is defined as the rate at which one variable, say caliber/momentum, can be traded for another, say number of rounds, in order to keep some specified function of both at a constant value.

    For example, if momentum=mass*velocity, then any combination of mass and velocity that yields the same momentum defines a two dimensional curve with mass on one axis and velocity on the other. In this case, it is an hyperbola. Anyway, the slope of this curve is the mrs between mass and velocity.
    So, suppose I have a seven shot 22 magnum revolver (sw 351PD) and a 5 shot 38 special (model 36). Which is better for self defense?

    If you say the 38, then how many rounds would the 22 mag have to hold to be as good as the 38 special snub? Is there an answer? And if so, why? I suspect there is for most purposes. For example, the 45 acp is a good round, but would you prefer a 1-shot 45 acp or a 5 shot 38 special? I'll take the 38. So would you I think. How about 2 45 rounds? Three? You get the point.

    Just a hypothetical question. Professors think up this junk.
    God Bless
    Six for sure...Uh, I mean Five. Five for sure..

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    Senior Member Array jualdeaux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Waponi Woo
    Posts
    1,045
    A single shot .22lr could be the best for self defense. If, of course, that is all you can handle and you are a perfect shot and always hit the perp in the brain pan.

    In reality, this topic is going to generate flames of all sorts and really should not be raised again, and again, and again. Sorry.

  4. #3
    Member Array Gunner69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Hillsboro, Or.
    Posts
    109
    Best of both worlds....

    XD45 13+1 200gr JHP+P
    26 200gr JHP+P in spare Mags
    ===========
    40rds of 200gr JHP+P coming out of the barrel at just under 1100fps
    Priceless
    The 6 P's
    Prior Planning Prevents Piss-Poor Performance

    No man who refuses to bear arms in defense of his nation can give a sound reason why he should be allowed to live in a free country" T. Roosevelt

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array pogo2's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Southwest
    Posts
    3,149

    Other variables confuse the issue

    In order to make your comparison of caliber vs. number of rounds, you must hold other variables constant so they don't affect the outcome. But this may be impossible.

    For example, your comparison of X rounds of .38 with Y rounds of .45 seems to assume that all rounds in the guns are of equal importance in a defensive use of the gun. But I would contend that the first round fired is the most important. This is because a well placed first round of sufficient size and penetration has the potential to end the fight now, so that subsequent rounds are not needed and not fired. In the time required to shoot more rounds of the smaller caliber, your attacker might injure or kill you, so "time is of the essence". It is vital to strike hard and fast to defend against his attack, and make the first round count.

    This would argue for a powerful caliber in a gun of possibly limited capacity that you can shoot very well, rather than a less powerful caliber in a gun with many rounds on tap.

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    3,164
    I say that you have to figure the which will give you the greatest area of holes in the scumbag per given unit of time. Ignoring the time factor, which gives the the greatest total area of hole per total load carried?
    .22(.038sqin)*7=.266 sqin total hole area in target. In fact, it take 7 .22 rounds to equual just 2 of the .38. And I can imagine that you can get two .38 rounds into the target much faster than you can get seven .22 rounds in. It takes 17.5 .22 rounds to be "as good as" a 5 shot .38, assuming you have plenty of time to get 17.5 hits.

    Then there is the less scientific legal factor. If it takes 7 rounds to put a BG down, the Prosecuter and/or the BGs' attorney will have a field day with why you shot someone & times! They don't care the caliber, "He fired twice" sounds less brutal than"he emptied all seven rounds into him."
    .38(.113sqin)*5=.565 sqin

    Assuming either round can adequately penetrate the target, the .38 clearly does more damage, which equals greater leakage. He who does the most damage the quickest, wins.
    Spend few minutes learning about my journey from Zero to Athlete in this mini documentary!
    Then check out my blog! www.BodyByMcDonalds.com

    Cupcake - 100 pound loser, adventurer, Ironman Triathlete.

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Kommie-fornia-stan
    Posts
    7,045
    Two words:

    Shot placement
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

  8. #7
    Senior Member Array Vaquero 45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    882
    Well this is an interesting way to start a "9mm vs 45" thread!
    Slow is smooth.....smooth is fast.

  9. #8
    Member Array Jaystekan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    492
    This thread makes my brain hurt. I was going to say something, but I think i will just pass on this one, too much thinking for me.

  10. #9
    Senior Member Array Devone6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    South of North, North of South
    Posts
    654
    I don't know Metro, it could be a .40 vs .45 (vs 357sig, vs 38Super, vs 380, vs .38, vs 45LC, vs 44Mag, vs 32H&R, vs .17HM................) vs 9mm.
    A .22, .38, & .45 were all mentioned at first, so this outta get interesting.

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array MNBurl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    3,022
    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    Two words:

    Shot placement
    Plus one word... Penetration
    MNBurl

    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking" - George S. Patton.

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array aus71383's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    2,543
    This is awesome. I'll be that guy - ready?

    The 1911 in .45 ACP is the best defensive handgun in the world. Nothing is better than .45 ACP. A .22 will get you killed. A 38 is not enough. A 9mm is a pea shooter. .45 Rocks!

    That was a joke.

    (Naturally, each person makes their own decisions about what they want to defend themselves with. If you look at what you local PD uses, that is probably a good starting point. People tend to like what they have chosen, and say good things about it - like I just did - but that doesn't make it "the way things are". There are pros and cons to everything.)

    Austin

  13. #12
    VIP Member
    Array nn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    7,119
    IMO 1 or 2 well placed rnds of whatever you got is all your going to get. So what you got will have to do.

  14. #13
    Member Array greyhound1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Philadelphia suburbs
    Posts
    41
    To chief's special. I believe that, theoretically, your argument has merit, and your topic for discussion is very interesting and thought provoking, to say the least. I think that you could compare different caliber bullets and prove your hypothesis. However, I have to give credence to POGO2's practical counter-argument to your theory in that the initial shot placement with a man-stopper round like the .45 or .357 "changes the equation" a bit. Should we say that these two rounds would be the "great equalizer" to your theory? Who knows, but in any event your points are very thought provoking. Look forward to your next thread!

  15. #14
    VIP Member
    Array Echo_Four's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Land of the mostly free
    Posts
    2,810
    I don't want to get involved in the caliber war. I've done that enough- and just to play devil's advocate I've taken both sides in the argument at different times. Both sides raise valid points and make points that don't really have much to do with the debate.

    I do just want to say something about the "man stopper caliber" BS that comes out when these debates happen. NO PISTOL CALIBER IS A RELIABLE MAN STOPPER! Whether it is .25 of .45, the bad guy isn't going to go flying through the air when you hit him. Yes, you need enough power to get the job done. That may be 9mm, it may be .40 S&W, or it could be .45 ACP. I'll let you decide. But, don't ever think that your chosen round is the be all end all man stopper. Chances are good that your first round isn't going to end the fight- even if you have a .45 and hit exactly where you wanted to hit.
    "The only people I like besides my wife and children are Marines."
    - Lt. Col. Oliver North

  16. #15
    Member Array greyhound1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Philadelphia suburbs
    Posts
    41
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo_Four View Post
    I don't want to get involved in the caliber war. I've done that enough- and just to play devil's advocate I've taken both sides in the argument at different times. Both sides raise valid points and make points that don't really have much to do with the debate.

    I do just want to say something about the "man stopper caliber" BS that comes out when these debates happen. NO PISTOL CALIBER IS A RELIABLE MAN STOPPER! Whether it is .25 of .45, the bad guy isn't going to go flying through the air when you hit him. Yes, you need enough power to get the job done. That may be 9mm, it may be .40 S&W, or it could be .45 ACP. I'll let you decide. But, don't ever think that your chosen round is the be all end all man stopper. Chances are good that your first round isn't going to end the fight- even if you have a .45 and hit exactly where you wanted to hit.

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Hypothetical: You are tasked to decide the number of rounds allowed after a mag ban
    By paramedic70002 in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: February 1st, 2011, 08:49 AM
  2. Number of Training Hits vs Number of Real Hits
    By limatunes in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: September 17th, 2010, 06:46 AM
  3. Number of Rounds fired in Gunfight?
    By bowzette in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 127
    Last Post: March 20th, 2010, 08:08 PM
  4. GOOD - break into my house, take a number. Your number might be "38"...
    By gasmitty in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: November 27th, 2009, 02:53 PM
  5. Caliber vs number of bullets?
    By Pro2A in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 62
    Last Post: October 23rd, 2008, 11:45 AM

Search tags for this page

.caliber vs. number of rounds statment

,

450,500 foot pounds rifle formula

,

are there different rounds of 45 caliber bullets

,

better to have bigger caliber or more rounds in gun

,

bigger caliber guns are better

,

is it better to carry more rounds versus bigger caliber

,

more rounds or biger calaber

,

more rounds vs larger calibre

,

whats more important number of rounds or caliber

Click on a term to search for related topics.