Do high capacity guns cause wasted shots?

Do high capacity guns cause wasted shots?

This is a discussion on Do high capacity guns cause wasted shots? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have tried a variety of CCW guns over time, ranging from 5 and 6 round revolvers to 16 round “wonder nines” and 13 round ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array pogo2's Avatar
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    Do high capacity guns cause wasted shots?

    I have tried a variety of CCW guns over time, ranging from 5 and 6 round revolvers to 16 round “wonder nines” and 13 round “forties”. But sometimes when I think about ammo capacity in the gun, I wonder if our behavior in a defensive shooting would be influenced by the capacity of our gun? Would having 16 rounds on tap motivate us to “spray and pray”, versus aiming and firing deliberately if we only had a 6 shot revolver?

    I got to thinking about this while watching a surveillance camera video of a convenience store robbery on TV. When the robber pulled out a Glock and demanded cash, the store owner produced a small snubby revolver from under his apron and both parties started shooting. The owner backed up about 10 feet behind partial cover and slowly fired 2 or 3 shots at the robber, missing him. At the same time the robber knelt down behind the counter and lifted his Glock over the counter, firing shots without aiming as fast as he could, in the general direction of the store owner. The robber fired about 10 shots, missing with every one, then ran out of the store. That was it, and nobody was hit.

    I carry only a 6 shot revolver about 30% of the time, with one speedloader or speed strip. But when I have a revolver I am keenly aware of the limited ammo capacity and slow reload. I think I would expend my shots very carefully in a defensive shooting situation. But when I have carried my 16 round Glock 19, I have felt less concerned about running dry, and I think it would influence my behavior in a shooting.

    What do all of you think? Would this be an argument for revolver CCW, to impose some fire control discipline on us?
    Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the Peoples' Liberty's Teeth." - George Washington


  2. #2
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    I think ''fire-control'' discipline is down to practice.

    It's realizing and remembering in a training sense that misses don't count.

    Now it is possible - just - to imagine that a revo shooter just might - pause longer in order to make every shot count, being aware of his/her round count, if inadequate practice. The delay might be crucial.

    Of course ''spray and pray'' is tempting with a semi - I carry 15+1 and could rip that off real quick but - randomly? No I don't think so - I'd probably still be erring on side of accuracy - maybe also to my detriment.

    I would expect to get two off quick but know from practice that the first round can be a miss ... from close retension . but as I get to subsequent shots I am gaining accuracy all the time. Not ''x'' ring for sure but solid COM type hits. I daresay there could be a slightly greater miss rate thru temptation to go fast with the semi - but even so - fast shooting with 16 available - if that gave 50% hits it's gonna hurt!

    So - to summarize ... IMO training is all - and preferably with the one platform - the chosen EDC.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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  3. #3
    Member Array arawn's Avatar
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    If you'll forgive a paintball analogy...

    I'm reminded of pump players and their pump guns. Players have sworn up and down for years that pump guns are significantly and demonstratively more accurate than semis. The simple fact is that pump players are more better shots than even above average players because they have to make their shots count.

    For a responsible shooter, "spray and pray" shouldn't ever be an option especially in a SD situation, for reasons too obvious to state in this company. However, given the fact that it's feasible with today's modern semis, I would certainly agree the danger exists. On a related note, my father many, many years ago told me the M-16 had been changed from full-auto capable to 3 rnd burst, because of related concenrs of fire control over stress (this was regarding Vietnam War and directly post-VW era) issue rifles.


    My 2 cents,
    B.

  4. #4
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    No, high capacity doesn't lead to spray and pray. Stress and a lack of training do. A lack of ammunition may change tactics for you, but that isn't necessarily a good thing. Rather than shooting him to the ground, you may be tempted to fire one or two shots at a goblin and then wait to see what happens- which is what it sounds like the person in your story did.
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  5. #5
    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    What P95 said. Training and practice will dicate how you shoot.
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array Ti Carry's Avatar
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    No, high capacity doesn't lead to spray and pray. Stress and a lack of training do.
    So - to summarize ... IMO training is all - and preferably with the one platform - the chosen EDC.
    Exactly right! If your not getting professional training and just relying on skills from the range you think you have you are doing yourself and the rest of the ccw culture an injustice. Get training, it's not that expensive and could not only save your life, it can keep you out of jail too.

    Sorry, but you would never catch me strapping a gun on with all the responsability that goes along with it, legal and otherwise with out the proper training.

    This is the number one reason why cop's think regualr citizens shouldn't carry (at least the ones who have a problem with ccw), they are concerned that the ccw culture is a bunch of untrained people carrying gun's and the sad partis for the most part they would be right in there assumptions, I bet that the numbers are 10 to 1 and I bet I am being nice, that 10 untrained people carrying to every one that is trained. I know of CHL holders that haven't even shot what they carry or any other gun for that matter since they got there permit. Some better than 3 years.

    Pogo: When I say you, I do not mean YOU as in YOU, but you as in general, just so we are on the same page.

    Ti
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Do high capacity guns cause wasted shots?
    Not with my two "high-capacity" 9's, they don't. They are well-suited to my hand, balance and point well, are highly reliable, and I have hundreds of shooting hours with them. IMO, knowing the weapon well contributes most to effective usage. The mere fact some marketing weenie decided it should be called a "wonder 9" doesn't make me spray bullets just because of that, no.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  8. #8
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    In a word, no. They allow you to put more accurate rounds down range; no more, no less.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  9. #9
    Member Array 7mm Gumbo's Avatar
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    Poor sight alignment and poor trigger control cause wasted shots.

  10. #10
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    Like what has already been said... it's up to the individual shooter and their self discipline and training.
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
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  11. #11
    VIP Member Array friesepferd's Avatar
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    it shouldnt, but it probably would

  12. #12
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    I train to hit with the first shot and the follow up shot. I have 12+1 cap, but spray and pray would not be responsible. If the bullet isn't in a perp, it's gonna end up lodged in something, or possibly someone else. That's a chance I don't want to take.

    Do you carry an extra mag with you? For me, higher cap is the ability to continue a gunfight if faced with multiple attackers or some other situation.

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo_Four View Post
    No, high capacity doesn't lead to spray and pray. Stress and a lack of training do.
    Well said.
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

    If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

    Matt K.

  14. #14
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    I don't think having more capacity causes wasted shots but, of course the fact remains that you have more rounds available to waste should you desire to waste them.
    I'm content with my single stack .45.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  15. #15
    Ex Member Array Sneaky's Avatar
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    Even with an M-60 machine gun we practiced and practiced with ONE key word--Control of the shots being fired! Control is in the mind of the shooter not the gun( no matter what capacity of ammo it holds)! Find a skilled shooting instructer and take a few shooting lessons--control takes lots of practice!

    SEMPER FI!

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