Re-chambering vs direct chambering update 3...

This is a discussion on Re-chambering vs direct chambering update 3... within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Actually direct chambering with a 1911 is usually considered to be taboo (due to possible extractor damage) and should be... sometimes. Usually the extractor "as ...

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Thread: Re-chambering vs direct chambering update 3...

  1. #16
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    The Big 1911 Direct Chambering Taboo

    Actually direct chambering with a 1911 is usually considered to be taboo (due to possible extractor damage) and should be...sometimes.

    Usually the extractor "as fit" and configured from the factory could possibly suffer some stress to the hook due to direct chambering.

    Mostly due to the front surface of the extractor not being nicely curved/radiused and polished.
    And...also due to the fact that the extractor hook is usually longer than it needs to be.

    However...If you custom configure your extractor it will move over a cartridge case quite easily and there will be no damage at all to the extractor.

    Also the new machined and properly "hardened and tempered" extreme duty "tool steel" extractors are so doggone tough these days that they just do not break that easily - and certainly not with that small degree of flex over a brass case.

    Just my personal opinion that direct chambering of a cartridge in a 1911 format pistol does not need to be the problem that it once might have been.

    You CAN configure and tune a highest quality 1911 extractor so that you can direct chamber cartridges without doing any damage at all to the extractor.
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  3. #17
    Member Array JohnKSa's Avatar
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    Anyone know what Glock says about it?
    There's a chance of chipping the extractor. I don't remember anything official one way or the other, there's nothing in the manual or armorer's manual and I don't remember it coming up in the class.

    This is an issue where it's ok with some guns and not with others. If it's not in the manual (either specifically allowed or prohibited) then you gotta contact the manufacturer for the truth.

    Ruger P89 & P95 and Beretta 92FS & PX4 are a few that I know specifically allow it in the manual, most just don't say anything one way or the other.

  4. #18
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    I would never recommend doing it in the 1911, even with a polished extractor face. The extractors on 1911's are "tuned" for tension. Running the extractor over the rim of the cartridge pushes back on the extractor in an unnatural manner, causing undue tension in the reverse direction. This can spring the extractor back the other way causing a loss of tension and can affect the angle at which the extractor hook attacks the inside of the rim and can adversley affect removal of the case. It can also break it due to impact on the rim.

    Do what you want, it's your gun but I will never do mine that way. Glocks ? Not recommended. YMMV.

  5. #19
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    At one time I would have agreed with you 100% but, times change and aftermarket extractors do also.

    Of course you'll spend $30.00 for an extractor but, it's worth the cost in my opinion to have an extractor that is overbuilt to the degree that it's virtually indestructible and will maintain its tension and integrity.
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  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    Well, I wanted to post facts that come from the manufacturers themselves. So what I've posted is not opinion, but recommendations and approved methods from Sig and Beretta. As I said in the embolded text in my OP, I only know for Sig and Beretta.

    The interesting thing about a USP (H&K) is it has an external extractor and you can chamber a round, push in on the rear of the extractor and slowly lower the slide and it's a very gentle operation. It's one of the few guns you can do that with.

    But, no, I have not talked to H&K about this, but I'd be glad to call them Monday when they re-open. I'm very curious now to see what they say.
    yes tangle, i have noticed this also. it actually lifts the extractor over the edge of the casing. i'm pretty sure in the USP manual that is says to do it from the mag, and to not ride the slide. i can't remember though if this was directly aimed towards +1 capabilities or if it was just about chambering a round. looking forward to reading what you get for an answer!

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    Sarge45

    At one time I would have agreed with you 100% but, times change and aftermarket extractors do also.

    Of course you'll spend $30.00 for an extractor but, it's worth the cost in my opinion to have an extractor that is overbuilt to the degree that it's virtually indestructible and will maintain its tension and integrity.
    +1. If a 1911 is a SD gun, $30 for an anvil tough extractor is about the best $30 one could spend.

    If the extractor on a 1911 is so delicate that the small amount of overtravel can cause problems, it may be a good idea to replace it. That sounds like it's pretty marginal to start with.

    However, if the extractor ramp isn't contacting the case rim, i.e. the end of the extractor is 'dead-ending' on the case, that's a different story. Plus, some 1911s now have external extractors.

    But as I and several have emphasized, if you don't have a Ruger, Beretta or Sig, you need to contact the manufacturer. I plan to call H&K Monday and ask them, and I'll probably call Glock too.
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  8. #22
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    Bullet setback IMO is an problem with the ammo not the gun. I have handloaded for some time and none of my rounds will do this. And I don't believe anyone has designed a semi auto with the intentional loading of a round not fed from the magazine. Rechambering the same round over and over is probably unnecessary and not a good idea. Of course I could be wrong.

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drail View Post
    Bullet setback IMO is an problem with the ammo not the gun. I have handloaded for some time and none of my rounds will do this. And I don't believe anyone has designed a semi auto with the intentional loading of a round not fed from the magazine. Rechambering the same round over and over is probably unnecessary and not a good idea. Of course I could be wrong.
    Bullet set back is not even a question. I used a number of different guns and several different brands of JHP factory ammo. I could measure setback in all guns tested. Setback is especially dangerous in .40 S&W and .357 Sig because they are high pressure rounds to start with. Others have also 'discovered' setback. Sig Sauer will not honor the warranty if they discover a round has been chambered from the magazine more than once.

    I first became aware of setback when I was unloading my SD rounds from an M&P mag. I noticed two rounds with significant setback.

    The problem is, some of us have to load/unload frequently, if we don't use the direct chamber method, how do we avoid rechambering over and over? Plus, if the manufacturer approves of direct chambering, what's the downside? It's easier than chambering from a mag if you're gonna have a mag capacity + 1 loaded gun.
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  10. #24
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    I contacted Glock, they say no. So if you carry a Glock, as others have indicated about the Glock line, you shouldn't use the direct chamber method.

    It's ok by Ruger, Sig, and Beretta and they say so.

    I'm waiting on H&K to call me back.
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  11. #25
    Senior Member Array coffeecup's Avatar
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    The simple solution is---Measure your ammo from time to time. If you run across shortened rounds,use your inertia puller and tap lightly to move the bullets foreward a bit, then run the rounds thru a factory crimp die. Takes all of a minute or two.

    If you dont reload-----you should just for the FUN of it.

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    I think the snag is gonna be the cost, not only for the Ransom Rest, but each gun has to have a set of adaptors and they are pretty expensive themselves. But wouldn't you love to see what would happen!
    Well, any time I try a new ammo type, I do a few five-shot bench rest groupings to see how accurate the ammo itself is. That is plenty stable enough for me to notice the "4+1" effect on the hand-chambered round. I would think that if there is a big difference between a direct chambered round and a hand cycled round, you would see this even from a plain ol' bench rest.

    Oh, and as for extractor issues, it occurs to me that direct chambering is exactly how one inserts an omega lock. Are there any manufacturers out there that disapprove of using omega locks in their guns owing to potential extractor damage? I certainly haven't made a study of the subject, but I know I have never heard of one...
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  13. #27
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    I just talked to H&K. They do not recommend dropping the slide on a round in the chamber, BUT, interestingly he described an approved way of direct chamber loading H&K. It is exactly how I described it in a previous post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle
    ...The interesting thing about a USP (H&K) is it has an external extractor and you can chamber a round, push in on the rear of the extractor and slowly lower the slide and it's a very gentle operation. It's one of the few guns you can do that with.
    To reiterate , H&K approve of direct chambering the H&K USP using the method in the quote above. He volunteered the method and I told him that was how I did it anyway. But in an H&K, do NOT drop the slide on a round in the chamber.
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  14. #28
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    You should call Para Ordnance and see what they prescribe with their super-duper POWER EXTRACTOR

  15. #29
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    Ummm...It is possible(not likely) to have a slam fire when chambering the direct method. Just chamber one from the mag like the gun is designed and you'll be fine. You can chamber a round from the mag nice and easy so the round doesn't smack the feed ramp to help avoid set back.

  16. #30
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    I prefer to load all y guns the same. I have to many different brands to remember which ones I can do this and which ones I can't. Much simpler to load all of them from the mag., as nobody says this is a poor method in their guns, and simply rotate my ammo as I should and watch for set-back which I have never experienced with my reloads as I use a good solid crimp, but with production ammo, simply rotate as normal and you have no worries and nothing breaks on any gun. K.I.S.S.
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