This is a discussion on The Sig 220 "Carry" within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I "played" with my Sig220 Carry 45acp yesterday morning after a 16 station round of sporting clays. It had 150 rds through it when I ...
I "played" with my Sig220 Carry 45acp yesterday morning after a 16 station round of sporting clays. It had 150 rds through it when I acquired this pistol.
Here's a picture of the "220 carry" [ the one I fired was not two tone ], which is the commander sized gun to the full size 220. 3.9" barrel, 3/4" shorter in slide length, takes the same 8 rd mags as it's big brother 220 as the frame is the same as the 220 as well.
Included is a photo of what this gun can do at 10 yrds [ the minimum we could fire on this range today ]. Benched for groups initially with 20 rds, standing two handed rapid fire with Pistol Quick Kill [ about 4 rds a second ] for the next 130 rds produced that target.
That target was placed on the same cardboard backer as targets used previously by someone, a few of my 45's went just out of the black [ the low left ones ], the black dot I'm firing at was 8" in diameter.
Overall, the gun ran as expected. A few failures to feed the 8th rd out of the mag with practice ammo, but with the Ranger T 230 standard velocity I carry on the street, no hiccups whatsoever.
It's a nice gun, I know others have experiences they'd like to share with Sig 220's right?
I'm going to change out the grips on this 220 for Sigs "thin" pair when they are available again. I've had sig 226's and 228's [ still have a 228 W. German model ] and the newly designed grips are lacking in my opinion compared to the older style grips.
I've researched the new 220 Carry model quite a bit and the last round not feeding in the 8 rd mags is a fairly well known glitch on the carry model. It happened three times on mine in 150 rds fired. Lets see, that would be 3 times out of 18 full mags, so the percentage of last round failure to feed yesterday on my own 220 carry was 15-16%.
When the last rd failed to go into battery, retracting the slide a little and releasing it did not get the rd to battery. If I dropped the mag and reinserted it, the round went forward automatically and could be fired.
On all three occassions when this occurred, the slide did not lock back on that last rd in the mag after it was fired [ the other fully topped 15 mags shot yesterday had no issues with the last round, and locked the slide back [ functioned perfectly ].
It leads me to believe the recoil spring needs some break in [ the 8th rd not going into battery did not lock the slide back when it was fired ]. It also leads me to think the mag spring is a potential culprit with issue as well in some way.
These new 8 rd mags they are having made in Italy [ no longer W. German ] have given Sig some issues with the new 220 carry according to others on the sig forum.
I'm going to put 1K through her in the next couple of weeks and if the issue remains, it will go back to Sig, though I really think it is the new mags somehow and not the gun [ BTIAWAG ].
Sigs aware of the issue with the last [ 8th ] rd not feeding occasionally [ someone mentioned on the sig forum that a sig rep stated 2-3% of the carry models experienced this problem.
I still don't think this takes the gun out of the "dependable" realm, but if you are thinking about one, I thought I'd better get this information to you so you can make a better informed decision.
I keep hearing about the FTF the last (eighth) round on the P220 carry model. I'm on Sigforum and hear about it now and then. I haven't had any problems with my P220R full-size---yet. They do use the same factory magazines right?
"A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
superior skills."
Thumper, and others with experience regarding the 8 rd. stainless mags--
Have you found the 8th rd in these mags needs a lot of effort? Do the mags spring eventually take "set" and get easier for the 8th rd? Will 7 rd 220 mags work in the carry model? [ I'm thinking yes, same frame size ], and do the 7 rders load easier or is the 7th that hard in them as well?
Mine are tearing the crap out of thumb loading that last/8th rd. After I cleaned the two I used, one was worse on the 8th rd and the other was the same, which I found odd. I took that mag apart 3 times, and back together, so I know it's right [ even did the side by side comparison and the spring is correctly placed ].
Thumper, and others with experience regarding the 8 rd. stainless mags--
Have you found the 8th rd in these mags needs a lot of effort? Do the mags spring eventually take "set" and get easier for the 8th rd? Will 7 rd 220 mags work in the carry model? [ I'm thinking yes, same frame size ], and do the 7 rders load easier or is the 7th that hard in them as well?
Mine are tearing the crap out of thumb loading that last/8th rd. After I cleaned the two I used, one was worse on the 8th rd and the other was the same, which I found odd. I took that mag apart 3 times, and back together, so I know it's right [ even did the side by side comparison and the spring is correctly placed ].
Brownie
I think thats a safe assumption about the recoil spring...
My 8 rounders that I carry for my fullsize where a little stiff at first, its no problem now.
I dont see why any 220 mags wouldnt work, but I dont know 100%.
I've had last rds be a PITA from time to time on some high caps, but these 8 rd'ers seem really an effort as though they should be 7's [ the 7th is not difficult at all, and that 8th rd is a real thumb ache at the moment.
You know, the 8th round is a little hard to load, especially in new magazines, but what I do is strike the magazine's base against the heel of my hand a few times to compress the spring with 6 or 7 rounds loaded. This seems to make getting that 8th round in without experiencing physical pain a bit easier!
"A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
superior skills."
I have a 220 Carry in a DA/SA and another in SAO. I have not had the infamous 8th round FTF in either gun. I have noticed that Sig now puts an 'extra' indentations at the top of the new mags, presumably to keep the top round from moving forward under recoil???
The last round thing is odd to me because at that point, the mag spring has so much less pressure applied to the round. You'd think if it was going to FTF, it'd be from a fully loaded mag with the spring force maxed out.
The mag springs are stiff. I only shoot five round strings at the range, but that seems to have loosened up the spring a bit and the last round is more manageable.
That link will take you to a thread on the sig forum that potentially identifies the cause of the 8th rd ftt syndrome experienced by some [ including myself a few times with my new 220 carry ].
I looked at mine and that corner was slightly beveled, so I buffed it some to smooth it further and we'll see Tuesday if that takes care of this issue as they are suggesting.
I've already polished the feed ramp to mirror, which was something Sigs been doing when these have been sent back, so between that and this polish of a part, we'll see.
Thought that link would be good for the database here in the event anyone else experiences this issue.
Tangle, my mags are getting better at loading the 8th rd, I've loaded and unloaded them after sitting for 24 hrs as was suggested, seems to be of some benefit and should take care of that problem as well after they get wrung out some on the range.
In the meantime, anyone heard anything about the Act/Novak 8 rd mags for relative reliability over the sig mags? The Act/Novak mags are also made in Italy like the OEM's but I'm not sure if they are from the same company or not.
The SIG factory mags have been made by MecGar for quite some time now. Years.
The last three 220 mags that I bought are screwing up big time thumbing in the last round.
Ditto: that it seems like they are not really 8 rounders.
It gave me a real W. Tee F. because the MecGar mags are usually fantastic and overall are finished better than they finish the SIG mags for the SIG factory.
I bought all three at the same time so I just chalked it up to a bad batch of mags and "file marked them" & put them off to the side.
Since I already have a LOT of 220 mags (why did I buy 3 more?)
I dunno I was caught up in a shop~a~holic moment.
Actually, the magazine bodies seem fine and "spec out" just fine ~ plus all 3 have really smooth lips and have well finished interiors.
I don't think the problem is with the pistol.
I'm pointing my index finger at the magazine followers and the fact that brute forcing in that last cartridge is skewing the proper feed angle of the follower inside the mag and the last round is not being positioned properly against the feed lips.
Just my guess at this point in time.
Strange that when I called to order some 1911 Cobra Mags a few months ago from Tripp...they were having the exact same "last round" problem with some of their magazines.
Now you've got me really curious as to what exactly is going on with those 3 mags of mine. I'm going to hafta dig them out and really try & see what is going on with them.
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Originally Posted by AzQkr
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