Questions for HK lovers/owners or anybody I guess
This is a discussion on Questions for HK lovers/owners or anybody I guess within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Alright, I am pretty sure I know the answer coming from some of you out there but here goes. Since I do not have the ...
September 23rd, 2005 02:49 PM
?'s about HK guns for cc
Alright, I am pretty sure I know the answer coming from some of you out there but here goes. Since I do not have the option of trying these models before buying I would like some thoughts and opinions from you guys.
I am considering the USP .45, USPc .45 or the P2000 .40 for my main carry. In your opinion, which is best suited for cc? I know there are many variables but I think we can make this discussion work.
I have decided against the P2000SK(after some help from some of you ), realising that I can carry a longer barrel without problem. It also helped to shoot my dads Colt CC. It did not seem like it be would to large to conceal well. Besides, I'm a big guy. I should be able to conceal easier right? Anyway that is why I started to rethink the purchase of the USP. Is the having the USPc or the P2000 really going to be that much easier to carry? I like the idea of the changable backstraps for the p2000 which will allow a more custom fit but I lose the option of the .45 and have to settle for the .40. Not crazy about that but from other threads I have read it sounds like placement is more important then caliber(within reason ). Am I better off with the longer barrel of the USP for the velocity and accuracy or is the USPc good enough for combat situations? I am getting a S&W 642 w/ct grips for a BUG, so is a compact model really necessary? And while I am asking twenty question at once, what of the LEM trigger? Is a different trigger variant better for cc or is this a decision that should be based on preference?
Well ,there you have it. These are my thought and questions for the moment. Please keep in mind that at this time I do not have the option of renting, borrowing or shooting with a friend for any of these guns. I really would like your thoughts, opinions and info/insight.
Have at it.
Last edited by Shotgun Willie; September 24th, 2005 at 02:21 AM.
HK USP .45
HK P2000sk .40
September 23rd, 2005 02:49 PM
September 23rd, 2005 03:06 PM
Well, which is more important, having a.45 or having a slightly slimmer gun?
September 23rd, 2005 09:27 PM
I would want the P2000. I have a USP 40 full size right now. The compact .45 isn't all that compact. I am 5' 10" and about 180 lb. , so not all that small of guy, but my full size and the compact my girlfriend owns seems to be too big to conceal with just light clothing. I cary a PT 140 Taurus right now, but would like to upgrade to a 2000 when I have more money.
September 23rd, 2005 09:31 PM
Depends how big you are i can carry a Usp 45 iwb I pretty much prefer a fullsize pistol i have a couple of compacts buy still prefer a fullsize
September 23rd, 2005 11:13 PM
I have a similar problem, I have a Glock M27 that I love and I have the M22 and M23 mags with the "spacer" to provide a seamless grip surface and I love them. It's a great system. But I really want a high-cap 45. I don't like the grip of the M30 (too "blocky...like a 2x4) and the M21 is just too huge. I'm now looking at the ParaOrd TAC-4 LDA. I like the idea of having the second reload already IN the gun. Granted, it's a bigger package, but only in the grips. I'm almost 6' and about 250 so I can easily conceal a CC or a 1911 Gov't IWB with comfort. It's the grip and the method. Kydex would do fine or I have a Sam Andrews shoulder rig (Monarch Model with the optional knife sheath) that it should fit. Here is a link to Sam: http://www.andrewsleather.com/
I've never fired an LDA before, so this is my conundrum. I've been lurping around the 1911forum.com in the Para section and gotten some awesome feedback. I'm almost ready to make a well informed decision. I've got the shorty 40 and it's great. I feel perfectly well armed with that and the high cap backup mags. But I need the 45 in a high cap for those special unforeseen situations. So, IMHO, you're doing the right thing: Do the research and make a well informed decision.
Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.
September 23rd, 2005 11:55 PM
I have the USP Compact in 40 cal. The weapon points, shoots, and carries VERY nicely.......I also carry a lot of others as you know.....If you're considering the USP, I'd say go for the Stainless in the Compact, in the Variant 1 config, as you can carry in Condition One, and also have the ability to De-Cock the hammer with the downward motion from the same safety lever.. Just my 2 cents..
September 24th, 2005 12:14 AM
I own the USPc in .40 and .45
I shot the .40 in Jim Crews class last year (~800 rds) and everyone agreed (a number of folks tried it) that the standard trigger is brutal, not making it easy for good trigger control.
I love the gun but have put it away and using my P99 and 1911 for CCW. Someday I might replace the trigger on the USPc to make them more controllable.
I suggest that you try the triggers on the guns before you make a decision.
September 24th, 2005 04:42 AM
I tried about a dozen USPs before I bought one.
The 45 fullsize was the only one that really fit my hand and had an acceptable trigger, and I had examples from the entire line up to the factory threaded barrel tacticool stuff.
The USP 9mm and 40 fullsizes I tried rivalled the Hi-Point in bad triggerdom. I'm not kidding.
I wish I could get a 9mm on the 45 frame - the grip just doesn't feel right on the 9mm/40 to me but I have huge hands.
Driver carries less than $45 worth of remorse.
September 24th, 2005 08:58 AM
No HK experience but my maxim these days is basically full size, and also I favor some weight too. The 226ST is no more hassle to conceal than something smaller and I think a USP 45 would be well useful.
Of course - I am quite happy to do a carry test should anyone wish to donate!
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
- a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.
September 24th, 2005 11:06 AM
The two pistols I own are an HK USPc .40 and a Ruger 22/45. I'm about 6'3" tall and weigh in somewhere around 180 (so I'm really skinny).
I can almost get away with concealed the USPc in a Fobus paddle holster (which is a little blocker then recommended), and I think having a good IWB holster would allow the gun to disappear, but I have no practical experience with doing so, at least not yet.
Firefighter / EMT - Always Ready. Ever Willing.
~Never do anything that you don't want to have to explain to the paramedics...~
September 24th, 2005 01:51 PM
Iwb is still kind of hard to conceal with the usp it is still a big gun lot thicker than 1911
September 24th, 2005 02:44 PM
I am starting to get the idea on this site that full size isn't really that big of a deal, unless your body size just doesn't make it realistic. I am built more like a tank @ 6' /270lb so I not too worried about an extra inch here or quarter inch there. When I first joined on here I came in with the impression that a "fullsize" was best left to LEO or Military to carry. Ultimately, size of ccw appears to be a question only answered by oneself. It is not neccesary for me to list all the variables that affect this decision as you probaly know them better then I. It seems to me that in the end the is no magic answer for me, I will have to give and take to find the weapon or combination that works best for me.
With that being said, my focus shifts from size to one of performance and reliability. How much difference is there between the models listed above. I am admittedly relying a little heavy on the opinion of those who have fired or owned these guns, but that is my best option at this time.
I realize that the gun being good looking or not should not be the base for deciding which firearm to purchase, but I like the look of HK best. I would like to see if I could find one of their models that would work for me. If not I am considering the Sig 220, 226R DAK, or a Para(not sure which).
Thanks for the info and thoughts so far.
HK USP .45
HK P2000sk .40
September 24th, 2005 04:40 PM
Any of the H&K's will be reliable to a fault. I have shot the P7M8 and the USPc40. When the trigger is pulled, they go bang.
I carry the USPc40 regularly under an untucked polo shirt. No problem for me at 5'9"/190. I think the beggest factor in concealment is quality leather. My Del Fatti holsters keep it in real tight to my body. Less than quality belt and holster would make the USP's "blockyness" more difficult to conceal, IMHO.
I like the LEM trigger. It has a long stroke, with very little resistance until about the last 1/4" of travel. Break is reasonably clean. Short reset, maybe 1/8". It is the only type I've carried, so I can't address the other variants.
I am told the P2000 with the different backstraps is much nicer ergonomically than the USPc, but I have no first hand experience.
As far as caliber, you can debate that ad nauseum. A lot of LE agencies use the .40. I spoke to one former Border Patrol fellow who said that everyone he saw shot with the .40 died. I don't know how many that was, though.
Based on what I have read/heard, a fellow your size should be able to conceal a full size USP. I'd say the USPc & P2000 are sure bets, based on personal experience.
You said you can't shoot before you buy, which is a shame. Can you at least visit a dealer or gunshow and compare size side by side?
September 24th, 2005 05:28 PM
You size isnt far off of mine you will be able to pack the Hk no problem
September 24th, 2005 05:47 PM
I have my USP45 in a Blade-Tech IWB. I'm a skinny little fella but when I wear it you can't even tell it's there.
"There are more things on this planet with fangs, claws, poisons, and scales, than there are things that are warm, fuzzy, and full of love. It's just a simple fact." - James Keating
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what variant p2000 does the border patrol carry?