32acp

[Vaquero 45]

It's lighter and similar in slimness but almost and inch longer than the seecamp or guardian. I already have a P3AT I was looking for something even smaller (mainly in terms of length); ie guardian or seecamp.

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the notion that a P3AT is too big to CCW for you, and you want an even less effective caliber in an even smaller gun. I can't think of any .32 or even .25 pistols that are both smaller AND lighter than a P3AT.

If you really must tempt fate, I suppose you could go with an NAA mini revolver in .22 magnum or .22 lr.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[zero]

I’m happy with my Guardian .32. It is small and disappears easily. The extra weight (compared to the plastic pistols of similar size) makes it easier to control when shooting.

Someone in here suggested Fiocchi FMJ when I got mine. It seems hotter than the other .32 rounds I tried and works very well in the little thing.

It’s a small caliber pistol that is better than nothing when you aren’t carrying anything bigger.

[Schwebel]

Ahhh, internet caliber wars always make for great entertainment. Here is my personal take on the issue. I have witnessed countless gunshot victims at work and will tell you there is no "magic" caliber that will instantly incappacitate a person, unless it is put where it needs to go. I've seen a single .22 drop someone like a rock and another person shot 4 times (by a LEO) with a .40 and go home in a couple hours. It is all about shot placement.

Generally speaking, the people I have talked to who were shot had no idea they were hit until a little while later. If I had to choose a caliber to get shot with, I would not pick a .22, .25, or .32, these tend to fly around inside the body and cause all kinds of nasty damage. The larger calibers seem to just go through on a straight trajectory and exit or come close to exiting. Of course also most people I see shot, are shot with FMJ ammunition. Rarely have I seen hollowpoints on xrays.

This is not to say that the smaller calibers are better, because unless you get a CNS shot, you really do wanna make the biggest hole(s) possible. But rather to educate the non-belivers that a small caliber pistol can be an effective SD tool.

I think it really comes down to what you feel comfortable with. Some people just cannot handle the recoil of a larger caliber, or they cannot conceal a larger pistol on a EDC basis, or have small hands. For them a small auto makes perfect sense. Also if you do decide on a small caliber auto, pony up the cash for a decent one. The cheaper ones have a reputation for being jam-o-matics. I carry my Beretta Tomcat alot as a jogging/motorcycle/or BUG alot. Having a small and light gun makes it so I don't have an excuse not to carry.

Good luck with whaever you decide.

[David in FL]

My edc is a 9mm but I often carry a Seecamp .32 for the convenience. I've never felt that the caliber was a terrible limiting factor for me. What I do recognize is that the tiny little gun is less accurate and as such would be less effective (or even completely ineffective) in some scenarios.

Face to face "give me your money or I'm gonna cut you" the little .32 is fine IMHO. In a scenario where the BG is likely to be more than 15 feet away and there may be other innocents around, not so much.

Having said that, I have a Seecamp .380 on order and, assuming that I'm able to shoot the larger caliber as accurately and rapidly as the .32 , I'll carry it.

[Rob72]

I meant the guardian in .32 and both seecamps, thanks.

Good gawd. .380 and .32 have no significant ballistic difference, with good ammo. People are putting sights on pistols with 1.5" barrels and all sorts of other wonderful things to make them "combat effcetive".

I like my Seecamp; wouldn't trade it for any other option. It gets carried when I evaluate my risk as "low". If your "engagement" is over 10 yards, you really should be running/moving off line of assault, if one of these little guns is your primary (and in most other cases as well).

I doubt anyone would fire 1 round of any caliber, and wait to see if the BG was still approaching.

Basically, (and it sounds as though you have) you need to evaluate your personal risks (home/work environment, areas of travel, times of travel, socio-economic groups you routinely contact, etc..) and decide if you are comfortable with a minor caliber and limited capacity. If so, 6 rounds of .32 in someone's chest or face will be fairly decisive in settling a violent argument(at the least, the un-juiced will run, so as to escape further application of repellant).

Typically, I carry a G19. For low risk/low profile, I'm content with a Seecamp and some non-firearm choices.

[gold40]

I carry a KEL-TEC with .32 acp FMJ every day as my primary CCW, and feel quite safe. The .32 is easier to control (i.e. repeat shots) in a small handgun than the .380.

Many keyboard commandos get wrapped up in macho thinking -- "Mine Is Bigger Than Yours." For most of us non-LEO's, a .32 or .380 is all we'll ever need. The value of these little guns is that we actually carry them every day, wearing normal clothing. Much better than a .45 left in the drawer or glove box.

In my 67 years, including military service, I've never needed to point a loaded weapon at anyone! On several occasions, I've felt more comfortable knowing I had that option in my pocket, or on my belt.

Although not as concealable, I also own an older M-1903 Colt Hammerless .32 (for many years), and have sometimes carried it as my legal CCW. In winter, it is easy to slip into a parka side pocket.

JERRY

[Erich]

I've worked on almost 200 handgun killings in some capacity (some few as a private investigator in the early '90s, mostly as a lawyer since then). I'm with Gold40 and Schwebel based on what I've seen.

BTW, in Europe when the 9x17 and the 7.65 were being carried as military cartridges, the 7.65 was considered the more penetrative of the two. And I've never seen a case (in over a dozen) in which .380 ball didn't penetrate adequately.

You should all do what you want, but I have to say that I'm pretty amused at some of what I've seen written on the 'net by people who've never seen a single OMI report.

[nn]

jwalker497:
I think it would be alright, .380 would be better.
I will carry a P-22 with stingers under some circumstances.

[TerryD]

You can get a .45 pretty small nowadays. If I happen to ever have to use my pistol, I want it to be as big as reasonably possible.

I have had to use 9mm and .45 in real life self defense situations a few times before. That is why I will always carry a .45, and refuse to go smaller. I wouldn't even own a .32 for target practice.

A gun is supposed to be comforting not comfortable.

[jwalker497]

You can get a .45 pretty small nowadays. If I happen to ever have to use my pistol, I want it to be as big as reasonably possible.

I have had to use 9mm and .45 in real life self defense situations a few times before. That is why I will always carry a .45, and refuse to go smaller. I wouldn't even own a .32 for target practice.

A gun is supposed to be comforting not comfortable.

I know, but I was actually specifically looking for something even smaller than the P3AT. So I did soem research all I could find was a guardian and a Seecamp. The seecamp is obvious option in terms of being smaller but it's more expensive and almost impossible to get. If the seecamp were available, I would have went with 380 becuase the 32 is the same size, so mine as well have more claiber. But due to its limited availablity, I decided to look at the guardian .32acp becuase it was pretty close in size to the seecamps so that's where I am at. Right now it appears my only feasible option to find a very small gun, comprable in size to the seecamp is the guardian .32acp. The Guardian .380 is way too heavy!

[retsupt99]

I have the KelTec 32 and it's older brother the P-3AT...very little difference in size...for a choice I'd grab my .380, but for what SD either would provide...either would work.

OMO

Stay armed...stay safe!

[edw8ri]

I have told this story before on other threads, but here goes again.

It is June 1914. The heir to the throne of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, Archduke Franz Ferdinand and his wife are visiting Saravejo and are touring in an open convertible. Serbian BGs (Nationalists, Terrorists, take your pick) are there to kill them. One throws a bomb that explodes without injuring anyone in the royal car. The driver scoots off and ends up on a dead end street. He stops and begins to get the car turned. By a stroke of bad luck, another Serbian BG named Gavrilo Princip happens to be standing right there.

Princip has a Browning pistol, chambered in .32acp. Now this is 1914. The CorBon JHP does not exist. Princip's ammo is probably unjacketed lead round nose and it certainly would not have been zipping along at 1000fps. Princip fired twice from a range of no more than 10 feet. One shot struck the Archduke. One shot struck his wife. She was dead in 15 minutes. He lasted another 10 minutes. Neither was in any position to assault Princip after having been shot.

The direct and proximate result of these two rounds of .32acp was World War I. The direct and proximate result of that included millions of deaths, the break up of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the breakup of the Ottoman Empire, the creation of Iraq, Syria, and Saudi Arabia, the British commitement to a Jewish homeland in Palestine (Israel) and of course, the rise of Hiltler and World War II.

And they say the .32acp can't do anything.

[SIXTO]

I prefer the 32 as a bug caliber over 380... If I'm going to go small, I want a small gun and all the advantages that go with it. 32acp performs really well out ofa short barrel. If I'm going to go with a 380, I might as well go 9mm. Todays pocket 9's are really small.

[Vaquero 45]

I have told this story before on other threads, but here goes again.

It is June 1914. The heir to the throne of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, Archduke Franz Ferdinand and his wife are visiting Saravejo and are touring in an open convertible. Serbian BGs (Nationalists, Terrorists, take your pick) are there to kill them. One throws a bomb that explodes without injuring anyone in the royal car. The driver scoots off and ends up on a dead end street. He stops and begins to get the car turned. By a stroke of bad luck, another Serbian BG named Gavrilo Princip happens to be standing right there.

Princip has a Browning pistol, chambered in .32acp. Now this is 1914. The CorBon JHP does not exist. Princip's ammo is probably unjacketed lead round nose and it certainly would not have been zipping along at 1000fps. Princip fired twice from a range of no more than 10 feet. One shot struck the Archduke. One shot struck his wife. She was dead in 15 minutes. He lasted another 10 minutes. Neither was in any position to assault Princip after having been shot.

The direct and proximate result of these two rounds of .32acp was World War I. The direct and proximate result of that included millions of deaths, the break up of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the breakup of the Ottoman Empire, the creation of Iraq, Syria, and Saudi Arabia, the British commitement to a Jewish homeland in Palestine (Israel) and of course, the rise of Hiltler and World War II.

And they say the .32acp can't do anything.

Sigh........

Any caliber weapon, from .22 on up, works great for assassinating people. I doubt the Archduke and his wife bore any resemblance to the threats that a CCW holder might face, such as a mugger hopped-up on drugs or a pit bull trying to turn your 8 year old into lunch.

I work for a large metro PD, and I don't know ANY department in our area that will allow anything under a .380 for off-duty or back-up use. There is a reason for that. A smaller caliber MIGHT work, if you get lucky. While nothing is 100%, larger calibers and heavier bullets work better. Period. That's common sense, not "keyboard commando" mumbo-jumbo.

The notion that you don't need a more effective caliber because you aren't an LEO is puzzling to me. If you need a gun, you need a gun....period. When I'm off duty in plain clothes, I'm no different than anyone else carrying a concealed weapon. If someone starts shooting up the mall, if you are attacked by an aggressive animal (2 legs or 4), if someone pulls a knife or gun and starts to kill the clerk at the local stop n' rob while you are in line....what are you going to do that's any different than what I'm going to do when the threat turns its sights on you and your family?

If you truly can't carry anything bigger than a mousegun, fine. We each have a certain level of safety that we are comfortable with, and I'd rather see honest citizens armed with something, rather than nothing. But let's not pretend that .22, .25, .32 or even .380 are equal to the major service handgun calibers. They are not.

Bodies in the morgue that are riddled with mousegun bullets mean nothing to me. Even a well placed .177 pellet from a good air rifle will evenutally kill. It's STOPPING the threat that I'm concerned with, and stopping it RIGHT NOW. The only reliable method of instantly stopping someone is a CNS hit, and a larger, heavier bullet has a MUCH better chance of breaking bone, severing the spinal cord, or busting through the skull, rather than glancing off.

Also, the very thing that makes mouseguns so easy to conceal makes them harder to get a good grip on. Punching paper at the range is one thing. Add the stress of a lethal confrontation, and the task is even more difficult.

This isn't a matter of a "caliber war." This isn't a debate over 9mm vs 40 vs 45. This is something much clearer. This is the difference between service calibers, which by and large have the energy, momentum and sectional density to punch through to the vitals and expand a good part of the time, (with good ammo) versus secondary or "backup" calibers, which are an iffy proposition at best. Even when .32 and .380 were used as military calibers, they were used in fairly good sized pistols, not dinky pocket autos with minimal sights and 2 inch barrels. And you'll notice that the 9x19 is the standard nowadays for military pistols.

It is often said that a .32 in your pocket is better than the .45 in the glove box. That's technically true....but very well armed is the man who didn't leave the .45 in the glove box.

[Mainspring]

.32 ACP = Rim-Lock risk.