32acp

[C43AMG]

.32 ACP = Rim-Lock risk.

Not with FMJ, which is the preferred bullet type in this caliber.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[crzy4guns]

We will always have caliber wars on this forum and any other you care to engage. Everyone has an opinion on stopping power. This is usually based on data gathered from firing bullets into jello, soggy phone books or old newspaper, goats, pigs, cows, old tree stumps and even ole ma's left over pot roast. You get the picture. If one is that deeply concerned with stopping power, then you should be armed with a good shotgun or rifle. To quote a guru of self defense firearms Clint Smith, a handgun is an excellent tool to fight your way to a rifle. Obviously we can't tote our favorite .223 carbine to the supermarket to buy groceries, thats why we carry a concealed handgun. As has been said many times before the first rule of a gunfight is to have a gun - PERIOD. All else matters not. You could own the most powerful weapons on earth known to mankind, but if they not with you then they are of no value. Carry a pistol that is going to be with you and one that is the most powerful in that size that you are willing to shoot often and not leave sitting pretty in your sock drawer.

[Mainspring]

Not with FMJ, which is the preferred bullet type in this caliber.

Well, as I understand it, rimlock concerns only the rim of the case. In a nutshell, the rounds jijjle around in the magazine while the action is working and, well, the rims of the cases get locked up.

That's obviously oversimplified, but in the end that's how I understand it. I think that bullet design (FMJ, ST, etc...) effect how the cartridge wiggles it's way into the chamber.

That's how I understand it anyway.

[SammyIamToday]

For what reason would you like to carry a 32 over a 380??? If a readily available 9-mm could be found in the P-3at size I would be all over that.


Z

Not sure if this was answered or not, but in a short barreled pistol, the .32acp has basically the same velocity as the .380. So, you have a 20gr heavier bullet in a pistol that usually holds slightly less rounds and has more felt recoil in a pocket pistol.

I went with a P32 over the P3AT for that reason.

[SIXTO]

Not sure if this was answered or not, but in a short barreled pistol, the .32acp has basically the same velocity as the .380. So, you have a 20gr heavier bullet in a pistol that usually holds slightly less rounds and has more felt recoil in a pocket pistol.

I went with a P32 over the P3AT for that reason.

Me too.

[TerryD]

Sigh........

Any caliber weapon, from .22 on up, works great for assassinating people. I doubt the Archduke and his wife bore any resemblance to the threats that a CCW holder might face, such as a mugger hopped-up on drugs or a pit bull trying to turn your 8 year old into lunch.

I work for a large metro PD, and I don't know ANY department in our area that will allow anything under a .380 for off-duty or back-up use. There is a reason for that. A smaller caliber MIGHT work, if you get lucky. While nothing is 100%, larger calibers and heavier bullets work better. Period. That's common sense, not "keyboard commando" mumbo-jumbo.

The notion that you don't need a more effective caliber because you aren't an LEO is puzzling to me. If you need a gun, you need a gun....period. When I'm off duty in plain clothes, I'm no different than anyone else carrying a concealed weapon. If someone starts shooting up the mall, if you are attacked by an aggressive animal (2 legs or 4), if someone pulls a knife or gun and starts to kill the clerk at the local stop n' rob while you are in line....what are you going to do that's any different than what I'm going to do when the threat turns its sights on you and your family?

If you truly can't carry anything bigger than a mousegun, fine. We each have a certain level of safety that we are comfortable with, and I'd rather see honest citizens armed with something, rather than nothing. But let's not pretend that .22, .25, .32 or even .380 are equal to the major service handgun calibers. They are not.

Bodies in the morgue that are riddled with mousegun bullets mean nothing to me. Even a well placed .177 pellet from a good air rifle will evenutally kill. It's STOPPING the threat that I'm concerned with, and stopping it RIGHT NOW. The only reliable method of instantly stopping someone is a CNS hit, and a larger, heavier bullet has a MUCH better chance of breaking bone, severing the spinal cord, or busting through the skull, rather than glancing off.

Also, the very thing that makes mouseguns so easy to conceal makes them harder to get a good grip on. Punching paper at the range is one thing. Add the stress of a lethal confrontation, and the task is even more difficult.

This isn't a matter of a "caliber war." This isn't a debate over 9mm vs 40 vs 45. This is something much clearer. This is the difference between service calibers, which by and large have the energy, momentum and sectional density to punch through to the vitals and expand a good part of the time, (with good ammo) versus secondary or "backup" calibers, which are an iffy proposition at best. Even when .32 and .380 were used as military calibers, they were used in fairly good sized pistols, not dinky pocket autos with minimal sights and 2 inch barrels. And you'll notice that the 9x19 is the standard nowadays for military pistols.

It is often said that a .32 in your pocket is better than the .45 in the glove box. That's technically true....but very well armed is the man who didn't leave the .45 in the glove box.

I was in the Army for a while, and I have been a Paramedic now for over 3 years.

I have only seen a few people shot once, with a small caliber and it stopped them. I have seen quite a few die from about 10 or 12 9mm rounds, I just don't want to have to shoot that many times to stop a threat. But on the rare occasion that it is only one shot, it is usually a .45.

Regardless of what anyone says, I believe what I have seen. Since I go through the inconvenience of carrying a pistol, for me it might as well be a big one. I just don't feel comfortable with anything else.

I know it is a major pain to conceal a full size pistol. I conceal a full size Sig 220 everyday, even at work. I carry people down 4 flights of steps, in and out of wrecked cars, in the projects being chased by crazy meth heads, a lot of crap I gotta deal with. It a a HUGE hassle to conceal this thing, but I promised my wife when I git into this line of work that I would come home every night, and I don't intend to take any chances. It has saved me twice in the real world outside of work, and twice on the job. And more times than I can count while in the Army, as for many years my sidearm was a pistol, not a rifle.

I would just find a way to deal with it. I was trying to not be too preachy, as I like and respect "most" of the folks on this board. As someone who "really" cares, just give it more thought.

Sorry if I derailed the thread a little, and sorry for being so darn serious. I rarely am...trust me...

[rhinokrk]

Well, as I understand it, rimlock concerns only the rim of the case. In a nutshell, the rounds jijjle around in the magazine while the action is working and, well, the rims of the cases get locked up.

That's obviously oversimplified, but in the end that's how I understand it. I think that bullet design (FMJ, ST, etc...) effect how the cartridge wiggles it's way into the chamber.

That's how I understand it anyway.

FMJ has a longer OAL which prevents the forward / rearward movement of the rounds in the mag, eliminating rimlock.

[AzQkr]

A gun is supposed to be comforting not comfortable.

All my guns are comforting, no matter what caliber or size the guns are

I know it is a major pain to conceal a full size pistol. I conceal a full size Sig 220 everyday, even at work. I carry people down 4 flights of steps, in and out of wrecked cars, in the projects being chased by crazy meth heads, a lot of crap I gotta deal with.

Not everyone is in your physical condition. Some people are older, less physically fit, or have disabilities that prevent the use of a full size gun. For them, it's a smaller caliber/smaller gun or nothing at all. In several instances, I've had both men and women buy a Beretta 32 tip up barreled pistol from the shop because they couldn't rack the slide on ANY semi-auto we had in the store.

Are these people to be told don't carry at all if you can't carry and use a full size/service caliber handgun? Are they better protected with a sub-caliber
22/32/380 than not carrying anything at all because they can't handle a full service type handgun? Nah--I don't think so.

As an instructor, I've seen quite a few people who couldn't shoot a full size 45 caliber handgun worth sh*t, but they carry it everyday anyway. They have no rapid follow on shot capability one handed, and therefore carrying that firearm is a detriment to their surviving a SD shooting scenario.

I'd rather have them increase their chances of surviving with good hits from a sub-caliber they can handle than decrease their chances by carrying a gun thats too much for them [ and a lot of people fall into this category ].

Now, lets consider you get to be 60-70 years old. Think you'll still carry that 45 around everyday as well as a mouser? Think you'll still be able to control the recoil and have the hand strength to manipulate the slide and safety/decocker levers as adequately as you can at 30? There are physical limitations to be considered.

To tell someone they need to carry a bigger gun that they can't control physically or hit as well with, is a disservice to them. If I'm working the gun shop, I carry a full size service caliber handgun [ and secreted somewhere a mouser as well ]. I believe the threat level is higher for me at that location due to the nature of the business and carry what I think will give me the edge in that arena. Off from the shop, I might carry the same gun but I'm likely found with a Walther ppk or ppk/s on me, and often both of them at the same time.

Brownie

[wvshooter]

I used to carry 9mm every day. Now I'm carrying 15 rounds of 40 s&w. I've been carrying for almost a year now and realize that I have very little experience but have decided I would rather have more and not need it than need it and not have it. None of us really know what we will ever encounter if anything. IMO .32 is only effective if held in the proper location aginst an assailants neck, face, or head. What is a .32 to the torso going to do. Not much.

While the full size weapon is larger than any BUG it is very comforting having it on my hip.

[SIXTO]

Its important to understand the role of the mouse gun too. Mine is simply to have in my pocket when I'm not armed. Its to buy me time getting out of dodge, nothing more nothing less.

[AzQkr]

What is a .32 to the torso going to do

No one can answer that question, anymore than asking the same thing about what a 9mm or 40 will do to the torso.

Too many variables beyond our control to state with authority or with any certainty.

I've been next to a doorman [ friend of mine ] shot ONCE by a biker point blank from 3 feet with a cheap piece of crap 22 auto. The buddy stood there motionless for a few seconds at the most and dropped where he stood. Expired within minutes if not sooner where he lay. He did fight with the guy after being shot, he didn't speak, he just fell down.

Later, we learned the lowly 22 nicked his aorta, and he didn't stand much of a chance of surviving. But it should be reiterated, he didn't move after being shot [ and the fight was on so his adrenaline dump was up ]

In another instance, I was next to a Boston cop who was shot point blank with a 45 230 grain ball in the chest at a Dorchester triple decker while investigating an arson. The 230 ball load traversed through his torso, and exited his right calf. He didn't move, collapsed in about the same time as the bouncer shot with the 22 and recovered from those injuries.

So, one dead with a 22, another alive and well [ after recovery ] having been shot with a 45. Both at almost contact distance, and both to the chest of the victim at near contact range.

There is too much data out there that suggests a sub caliber can be a stopper and conversely, too much evidence out there to suggest your carrying a 40 or 45 isn't some automatic death touch from any distance.

Brownie

[*SA-XD4ME*]

I tell you a 32 H&R Magnum out of my 731UL with a 60 grain Gold Dot is a mighty, mighty thing to reckon with. What you say?

[SammyIamToday]

IMO .32 is only effective if held in the proper location aginst an assailants neck, face, or head. What is a .32 to the torso going to do. Not much.

Might want to check out these links.

The Box O' Truth #26 - Little Guns vs. The Box O' Truth - Page 1
The Box O' Truth #27 - Little Guns vs. The Box O'Truth #2 - Page 1

The .32acp got as much penetration as a .38 snubbie in all but the super crazy .38spl load.

While not the ideal round, I wouldn't feel totally lost with a .32acp as it still gets adequate penetration to reach the vitals of a human being. People spend way too much time worrying about anemic handgun calibers and not enough time shooting.

[tankdriver]

Well I have to say this about 7.65mm (32) pistols......

The Germans sure killed a lot of folks with them in WW2.......

[Mainspring]

FMJ has a longer OAL which prevents the forward / rearward movement of the rounds in the mag, eliminating rimlock.

Ok, I can live with the OAL theory. Makes sense. But I don't think that you can say that all brands of FMJ are seated the same so as to negate the rimlock risk. I think that you just have to find a round that works...FMJ or not.