Range report with a 642
This is a discussion on Range report with a 642 within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I didn't think that this fit in the Super Snub thread.
I went to my local indoor range today to practice with my ...
April 8th, 2008 03:27 AM
Range report with a 642
I didn't think that this fit in the Super Snub thread.
I went to my local indoor range today to practice with my new 642 and to qualify with it for my CCW permit.
The results were mixed.
I had two types of ammo with me, WWB 130 FMJ truncated cones, and Rem 125 SJHP both were rated as +P.
The WWB was less abusive to my hand but was not as accurate as the Rem but that is not saying much as I was all over the target, set at 21 feet, with both types.
Most of this would be my rookie handling of the snub, but some of the flyers were inexplicable. It would not have been possible to walk the muzzle that far off during the triggering.
So I move it in to seven feet and was still not punching the X. It persisted in firing high and right.
I cured the 'high' part easy enough by finally realizing that only the very tip-top of the front sight should be in the groove. But the right-shooting continued.
After 100 rounds of practice I decided to try the qualification target. I was not optimistic. You have to score 26/30 on a rather smallish rectangle target at 21 feet.
well, I managed to go 30/30 with 23 in the X or 10 rings but all the hits were scattered. This is unlike when I qualled with my SiGP220 or my MTN gun in .45 Colt both those targets had their Xs chewed out.
I've never shot so poorly with a gun I own. More practice is required as will shooting from a rest to see just what it can shoot.
The stock stocks have got to go. I'll be slapping some Houges on there right quick.
I didn't expect the recoil of the gun to remove a patch of skin on my thumb but it did. Maybe new grips and a different grip by me will help that out.
Is there some way to ensure more positive extraction of the empties? Even a hard slap on the rod would leave a couple of hangers almost every time.
After shooting this 150 times I'm amazed that people will fire full-house .357s out of lighter guns.
I'm not sure if I ever got used to stopping at 5 shots.
April 8th, 2008 03:38 AM
"Most of this would be my rookie handling of the snub, but some of the flyers were inexplicable. It would not have been possible to walk the muzzle that far off during the triggering."
Warren: I was really disheartened after my first outing with a 442. With practice I improved and now shoot pretty well with an even lighter 342pd. I didn't do this, but consider getting some laser grips. You can see exactly the effect of your trigger pull while dry firing.
April 8th, 2008 03:42 AM
Way back when I purchased my 638 I was having a bit of troble getting rounds to go where I wanted. If you read through this it might have a jewel of wisdom or two for ya: http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...lp-needed.html
About the best thing to do is practice, which I woefully can't do with that weapon right now.
Fortes Fortuna Juvat
Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor
April 8th, 2008 03:54 AM
That sounds about like my experience with the stock trigger. A good trigger job is a requirement, in my mind. Also, fifty rounds per session is sufficient. Any more than that and I get tired and start shooting all over the place... and wear the skin off my thumb.
Try Uncle Mike's Boot Grip, available directly from S&W. Be sure to keep your firing hand as high up on the grip as possible.
April 8th, 2008 04:10 AM
You get it running right. Don't lose your self confidence.
The wrong grips coupled with some skin abrading off your hand and too heavy of a trigger pull sounds like your problem.
That's enough to make a body spread them out a bit on the paper.
Everything that is not perfect with the firearm is always magnified with a snub.
And try some Speer Short Barrel if you can find some in your area.
Also keep in mind that some guns hate Winchester White Box with a passion.
April 8th, 2008 04:27 AM
I forgot about the T-grip, I'll give one a try with the new grips.
I cannot afford C-traces just yet, so I'll do what I can with other approaches.
April 8th, 2008 08:25 AM
Brass extraction varies by manufacturer in my experience. Some cases tend to hang up more. Also, the j frame cyclinder is small, so it heats up quickly. Nothing to worry about there.
Don't forget to dry fire practice. Lots of dry fire practice. Learn to smoothly squeeze the trigger watching the front sight. Every time the front sight is obsevered to move during the squeeze creates a "flyer."
Things to think about with the j-frame:
1) Get a solid grip and clamp down on it
2) The thumb of the support hand can lap over the shooting hand and squeeze tightly
3) Watch the front sight, when it moves, the shot goes errant
April 8th, 2008 08:33 AM
I attribute my 642 shooting to the right to the heavy trigger.
America: Your government is not ignoring you, it's insulting you.
The Bill of Rights: Void where prohibited by law.
April 8th, 2008 09:06 AM
I wouldn't worry too much about the accuracy. The small j frames are meant to be up close and personal defense weapons. If your hitting 30/30 at 21 ft I would think that you could get good COM hits in a combat situation.
The empty shell casings don't start hanging up on my j frames until I start getting into the 25-30 round range. So in a combat situation I doubt that you will be reloading that many times.
Police Defensive Tactics, Firearms, Carbine Rifle and Taser Instructor
NRA Life Member
It is better to have your gun and not need it, than to need it and not have it!
You cannot choose the conditions for a gunfight, so train in all conditions!
April 8th, 2008 09:07 AM
If you really want to have some fun, leave an empty chamber when you load it. Spin the cylinder when you close it so you don't know when the empty one will come up, and have at it. You'll find out in a hurry if you're anticipating the recoil or not......
Snubbies and other extremely short barreled pistols are tough. You'll get there.
April 8th, 2008 09:19 AM
Laser grips are a big plus on a 642. They give you a much better idea of the mechanics of shooting the DAO 642.You do not have a target revolver in the 642 but the 642 is very good at what it was designed for, which is a comfortable carry,reliable, close quarters combat piece. 20' is the max I practice with my 642. Chuck.
642 with Lasermax grips.
April 8th, 2008 09:29 AM
Here's a picture of the Ruger SP101 I've recently purchased and one of my range targets - all shot at 7 yards. Two handed standing position. Shooting full load .357's; Speer 125 grn. Gold Dots & Cor Bon 125 grn. JHP's. As you can see, the Speers shot a bit better. But I can't do this every time! I shoot the lesser powerpacks (regular .38's & +P's) more often, but with practice you can do well with one of these guns. Just do NOT shoot too much at each session. If you do, your flinching problem be magnified. I shoot once or twice a week, shooting about 20 - 30 rounds at each session. And I do quite a bit of dry fire practice inbetween each session as well. The previously posted link is excellent - read it slowly. Here's the picture:
"A voyage in search for knowledge need never abandon the spirit of adventure."
April 8th, 2008 11:32 AM
LOL!! reminds me of my first time out with my Taurus 850. After shooting 1911s and N frames since I was a kid, I was downright mad at my inaccuracy with a snubby. But, that's a snub, easy to carry hard to shoot well. Also it helps to keep in mind a snub is not made to shoot Xs but COMs. It's a close quarters defensive weapon and that's it. I was trying to make it somthing it wasn't. I also lost a patch of skin and was quite upset about it until a pal reminded me that snubs weren't really designed to be shot 200+ rounds at a time. With that in mind I trained until I thought I was going to start loosing skin and called it quits. Practice, practice, practice. Dry fire a ton, and shoot it a bunch. Stick to training at 21' is my recommendation but do whatever you want. There is a mastery to be attained with a snub. I found that handling a snubby well is almost an art form in itself.
In God we trust, everyone else keep your hands where I can see them.
Rights are like muscles: If you don't excersise them they slowly disappear.
April 8th, 2008 12:09 PM
Try other ammo! I find the winchester white box to be affordable plinking ammo but it's always very very inaccurate for me.
Trigger job would help tremendously on the snub; also, don't put the "pad" of your trigger finger on the trigger, instead, grab the gun up high on the backstrap and put your trigger finger in far enough that the trigger rests in the 1st fold down from the tip of your index finger. Practice dry firing it using this technique. Also, as you push the trigger to the rear slightely push the revolver forward with your arms as if you're poking; only a little. Imagine you're sticking a stick in the chest of the bad guy but only hard enough to poke the spot you want, not hard enough to run'em through.
This is a good point shooting technique that gets the brain working the same way it does when you reach to press an elevator button. No one stoops down to look at the button before pressing. the brain knows how to triangulate. Same works when you push the revo forward as you shoot.
Also, unless you've gotten a trigger job, forget "squeezing" off a round with a J frame. It needs to be a smooth quick pull. the Traditional squeezing will pull the revovler up or down and to the side every time.
Put this together and practice on a large man sized target at 7 yard with something other than winchester white box. Get the lowest grain NON +p and practice. After you fire the first shot; your focus should be to hit that hole again.
Doing these few things improved my j frame shooting alot. Then I went on to practice staging my trigger for more precise shots. I pull the trigger until it stages and then it's like single action from that point but try the other basic techniques first.
The push forward and trigger position helps keep the gun straight as you're pulling the trigger.
April 8th, 2008 12:43 PM
My 642 shoots very well after a trigger job. 15 yards is all you would expect a guns like this will shoot well. I would start out at 3, 7, 10, 12 and 15 yards. Practice makes perfect!! Steve48
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