I'd like to enter..."THE GUNSHOW LOOPHOLE"

This is a discussion on I'd like to enter..."THE GUNSHOW LOOPHOLE" within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'll stop in to the Mn State Fair Gun Show this weekend. looking for a new holster and researching the purchase of a Glock 21. ...

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Thread: I'd like to enter..."THE GUNSHOW LOOPHOLE"

  1. #1
    Member Array 12smile's Avatar
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    I'd like to enter..."THE GUNSHOW LOOPHOLE"

    I'll stop in to the Mn State Fair Gun Show this weekend. looking for a new holster and researching the purchase of a Glock 21.

    I'd be curious to experience "THE GUNSHOW LOOPHOLE"

    I've purchased firearms from Federally licensed fireamrs dealers w/ background check before at a gunshow...but how would I go about entering "THE GUNSHOW LOOPHOLE" ?

    I've never seen a table or meeting area for "private person to person" gun sales. How is this done?...I'd merely like to exercise the right if it is indeed available.

    I've been watching the HBO series John Adams about the American Revolution and it makes you want to honor the founding fathers by exercising your Second Ammendment rights....I think a cash sale between 2 law abiding Americans for a nice used firearm was just what they had in mind.

    This is my first post here...this seems to be the most popular forum section, Mods please move if I've posted in the wrong section.

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array AZ Husker's Avatar
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    Around here we often see tables of a guy's personal guns. No paperwork needed for private sales. You'll see dozens of folks walking around with a sign pinned to themselves advertising whatever they've got in their backpack. Again, private sales. I make my best deals outside the gate. Catch the private individuals before they get to the wolves inside.
    Treat me good, I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, I'll treat you worse.

  4. #3
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I was at a gunshow about a month ago saw a guy with about 2 dozen handguns on a table,saw a llama 380 and asked to see it told him i'll take it and i got a chl so won't need to call it in just fillout the 4473 and he said these are my personal collection don't need to fill out nothing.I thought wow ok so i bought it and walked out.I have mixed feelings about the way it went down,He didn't know me from adam,as far as i know the gun isn't stolen from somewhere but i may have the pd run a check to be sure.And yeah i coulda been a convicted felon and now have a handgun.On the other hand if a criminal wants a gun he will get one, look how many dea and fbi guns get stolen,not to mention firearms stolen during burglaries.This is the 3rd firearm i have purchased like this,but the other 2 were pre 1984 also.1 .410 shotgun at an estate auction in 1975,and a handgun in 1982 from an ad in the paper.
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
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  5. #4
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    Guns with no paper are the best kind.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  6. #5
    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    It's not a loophole. That's just a term that resonates well with the anti's and those that listen to their rhetoric.

    As others have said, it's simply one private individual selling something (in this case a gun) to another private individual. It happens every single day through the classified ads in your local paper, but when it happens at a gun show, it becomes something more sinister somehow.......

  7. #6
    Senior Member Array fatboy97's Avatar
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    Chances of finding someone that has a Glock 21 for sale are SLIM TO NONE. Why don't you want to just find a reputable dealer with a table and buy a NIB G21? Do you want a used G21?

    In the 10 plus years of walking around every major gun show in the Twin Cities area I've never seen anyone trying to sell a Glock - yet!!!
    Be Observant and Be Safe.

    Current: S&W 442, Springfield XD9sc, XDm9, and Glock G26, G19, G23C,
    and SIG P226-40 TT, and Ruger GP-100, and Beretta 92FS
    Former: Taurus 92SS, SIG P220 TT, S&W 360, SIG P239-40, Ruger 22/45 MKII

  8. #7
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Guns with no paper are the best kind.
    +1

    In the 10 plus years of walking around every major gun show in the Twin Cities area I've never seen anyone trying to sell a Glock - yet!!!
    Glocks are a dime a dozen here. Classified ads, gun shows, pawn shops.........

  9. #8
    Member Array packin45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatboy97 View Post
    Chances of finding someone that has a Glock 21 for sale are SLIM TO NONE. Why don't you want to just find a reputable dealer with a table and buy a NIB G21? Do you want a used G21?

    In the 10 plus years of walking around every major gun show in the Twin Cities area I've never seen anyone trying to sell a Glock - yet!!!
    Well, I'm guessing he doesn't want to deal with a "reputable dealer" because he's tired of the local ones raking him over the coals. And I don't know what you're talking about when you say that nobody sells used Glocks at local gun shows, because I have been to two of them so far and have found multiple used Glocks at both of them.

    12smile, I made my first gunshow transaction a few months back, at the one held at the Minneapolis Convention Center. I had a handgun that I wanted to sell, and I wasn't sure how to proceed, so I talked to my carry permit instructor about it ahead of time. He told me to case the gun, and tape a 3x5 card to the case with a description on the contents and the price. It sounded odd to me, but I decided to try it.

    I was expecting to be hassled on my way in, but all that happened was someone opened the case, made sure the gun was clear, and ziptied the trigger back. I made it about 10 feet into the place, and someone stopped me and bought the gun I was selling. It's a good idea to check their ID and write down their information, in case something were to happen.

    Anyway, I was also looking for a used 3rd gen G21, same as you. My brother and I saw a bunch of used G17s, a few G19s, more G22s and G23s than you could shake a stick at, and a couple of 2nd gen G21s. There were also a bunch of new Glocks, but the pricing wasn't the greatest. Most of the people with tables were FFLs.

    At one of the last tables, I found a 3rd gen G21 for $375. All they had was the gun and the 10 round mag that was in it, and it appeared to have a low round count but was very dusty from sitting. I got it for $425 out the door, and picked up a spare mag on my way out. I cleaned it and went to the range, where I found that the 10 round mag was defective, but the gun otherwise looked and functioned like new (it has a 2000 date code). I was confident about buying a used Glock, since they're so cheap and easy to fix.

    I wish I were going to the show this weekend, but I'm not going to be able to. Good luck, and enjoy!



    Here's my G17 (purchased new 12-07) and my $425 G21.
    G17, G26

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil...

  10. #9
    Member Array packin45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post


    Glocks are a dime a dozen here. Classified ads, gun shows, pawn shops.........

    You guys are so lucky. In left-wing, socialist MN, you can't advertise firearms in any of the papers, and used guns at the few pawn shops that handle them are within a few bucks of a brand new one.

    Our local gun shop (well, there are two, and the same guy owns both) sells a used G21 for $550. They will not stand behind a used gun; they don't test fire them or even clean them up a little bit before they put them in the case. A NIB G21 is over $600.

    A few other prices that stand out in my mind, from my last visit:

    Galco Miami Classic shoulder rig for a G17- $170

    Glock magazine (any of them)- $27

    Hornady .45 acp 185 grain +p ammo (20 rounds)- $26.99

    Their XDs are cheap, though
    G17, G26

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil...

  11. #10
    Member Array 12smile's Avatar
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    packin45, I'd love to pay under $500 for a new Glock 21 but I'm still shopping. My intent Saturday is to purchase without government involvment. I have a MN permit to carry and am a legal purchaser...I just want to exercise the freedom to purchase w/o government supervision.

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Question...

    For those who purchase person to person how do you know/check that the firearm is not associated with a crime of the past or was stolen?

    I've bought a gun only once via this manner, P2P, and it was from a former employee who himself was former FBI and was someone I knew very well. He and I exchanged personal info including copies of our drivers licenses and SS#s (were then printed on our lic.) for our own future record keeping and exchanged monies at that point.
    Years later I sold that same gun to an ex-gf and did the same procedure, and she was a person I knew well.

    Today though I'd feel odd about buying a gun from a complete stranger knowing nothing about them, their firearms history, and having no 'papers' processed against the person and the purchase.

    What do you guys do toward this or do you just take the sellers word that he's a 'good guy' and take it on faith/hope that the firearm was neither stolen nor associated with some criminal activity prior be it from the guy that sold it to you or the owner/possessor before him?

    - Janq has been to several but never bought anything but a pretzel at a Gun Show
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  13. #12
    Senior Member Array SilenceDoGood's Avatar
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    I won't buy w/o papers. I know some say its the best, but all it takes is to get pulled over and the officer request that you remove your firearm and then run it...bam... to jail forever because you cannot prove that you weren't the guy that shot so-and-so 5 years ago. Now, if i knew the person that is a different story.
    "A government is like fire, a handy servant, but a dangerous master." -- George Washington

  14. #13
    Member Array Sgt.Rock's Avatar
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    Not much I can add here, great posts by everyone, but the OP's post just sounds like an opening to "THE TWILIGHT ZONE".

  15. #14
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    Question for those of you who own multiple firearms (more than one or two):

    How, when you leave this mortal world (kick the bucket, expire, buy the farm...etc....), are you're dependents going to dispose of your firearms?

    Do you want them turned into the government for destruction?
    Do you want them sold to a gun dealer (for less than what they're worth!)? Who will then resell them at his profit!

    OR
    Do you want them handed down thru the generations of YOUR family?
    Do you want your family to be able to rent a table at a show & make some money (without owing taxes) for their future?

    My choice is the latter two. I have a bunch that will need to be disposed of when my time is up. Some will go to family, others are to be sold to help my estate....I hope they get sold at a gunshow!
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

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  16. #15
    Member Array Texas Yankee's Avatar
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    I either get a bill of sale or I memorialize the sale as soon as I get home on my gun list. A bill of sale is better but the gun list should work to show that I was a bona fide purchaser.

    On the sale side, generally take cash only. While I suppose I could worry about selling to a criminal, I don't. Statistics show that very few guns used in crimes come from gun shows so I really don't think there is much risk of selling to a criminal. Some people I know will only sell to CHL holders in Texas.

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