Why the lack of safetys on sub-compacts

Why the lack of safetys on sub-compacts

This is a discussion on Why the lack of safetys on sub-compacts within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have been looking in to a sub-compact for concealed carry. There are many fine options out there glock, HK, etc., but I would like ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array HKtexas's Avatar
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    Why the lack of safetys on sub-compacts

    I have been looking in to a sub-compact for concealed carry. There are many fine options out there glock, HK, etc., but I would like to have a frame mounted safety, I used to carry a Glock 19 which is a fine weapon but was never completely comfortable carrying due to this fact and switched to a HK compact for that reason, and also imo its one of the finest weapons made, but thats a different thread.

    Gun manufacturers must do consumer research before introducing a new model, am I in the minority of people who like this feature. Is this a purely technically based decision ease of manufacturing, reliability, cost effectiveness etc. Was wondering what the other members thoughts were on this subject.


  2. #2
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    Many seem to like the lack of safety as it adds a step in bringing the gun to fire. Personally , I like a manual safety ala 1911 style . But I carry either a SA Champion or a HK USP cocked and locked.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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  3. #3
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    There are many sub compacts with safetys if you should want one . Look at colt mustang .380s , some of the baretta line for the primo quality guns . Heck not too long ago my walther ppk was considered a " sub compact " pistol and it has a safety . In that spirit the emp does , There is no lack of pistols , and compact pistols with manual safetys . If the particular pistol you like is not built in the configuration you like well i am sorry , however you dont lack for choices on a viable carry gun if your make or break point is a safety .
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  4. #4
    VIP Member Array Ridgeline's Avatar
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    Also a SA carry guy in one of several BHP's. However with that said, the typical sub comp will have the same safety as your typical revolver. I would also have some problem with that carry style, until I became used to it. But remember, the best safety is the one at the other end of the trigger finger.
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  5. #5
    VIP Member Array semperfi.45's Avatar
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    Every gun has a frame mounted safety. It's between your ears and that's mounted on your frame. Never been an issue for me. Bottom line - carry what you're comfortable with.
    Training means learning the rules. Experience means learning the exceptions.

  6. #6
    Member Array diablo111's Avatar
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    My Taurus PT-145 sub-compact has a manual thumb safety. However, I view DA only (striker fired) pistols the same way I do SA/DA Revolvers. Safety is in the trigger...no worries.
    If you own a handgun and your state law allows it, please carry.

  7. #7
    Ex Member Array surprise's Avatar
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    A safety doesnt make the weapon safe. If you need to remember to release safety before firing,why cant you train yourself to keep the finger off the trigger?

  8. #8
    Member Array dawgfvr's Avatar
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    Amen! I like my autos like my revolvers...DAO...which does not need a redundant safety.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Array Saint77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by surprise View Post
    A safety doesnt make the weapon safe. If you need to remember to release safety before firing,why cant you train yourself to keep the finger off the trigger?
    Speaking for myself, I like to train my brain to remember the safety between my ears AND use a manual safety on the gun itself. Call it silly if you like, but the double redundancy is nice.

    but I totally agree, you can put 40 different types of safety mechanisms on the gun, and that still dont make it safe in my book.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array Sarge45's Avatar
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    I prefer 1911's with the frame mounted safety but I also carry Glock and a M&P9c, which is very similar to Glock. I transition very well between the two but the safety is what I'm more comfortable with.

  11. #11
    Member Array Zach and Holly's Avatar
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    Haha, I know I'll get yelled at for my naive view, but if you're going to have a safety on, may as well carry unchambered. I know I know....but in a heated situation, will you remember to pop that safety off in the instant you need to pull the trigger? Likewise, will you remember to rack that slide in the instant you need it. Or have time either way. Some would also say however that a pocket carry (even unchambered) is faster than having to unbolt your holster to draw. Practice makes perfect in all instances I suppose. But for a carry weapon, I don't like a safety. I wanted one originally; but am now glad the LCP doesn't have one. One less thing to worry about really (and to mess with).
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  12. #12
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    Actually I need to respectfully disagree with that statement.
    Having a manual safety is not at all equal to carrying unchambered.

    Firstly - flipping off a thumb safety as a rehearsed and ingrained simple action takes only microseconds and it is done as part of the presentation so there is no added/increased time involved.

    Carrying the defensive semi-auto with the chamber empty necessitates moving the projectile/cartridge from one location inside the firearm to another location AKA out of the magazine and up into the barrel chamber.
    In the heat of the moment it is possible that you will fumble that feed due to the loss of fine motor skills and adrenaline increase and kicking into "fight or flight."

    It's also possible that you might be fending off a violent attack with your support arm/hand which will make it realistically impossible to chamber a round at the very same time.

    So...they are not the same.

    It's also (less likely) but, still possible that you will be shot before you have cleared leather. While chambering a round is possible with one arm...at that very instant when life hangs in the balance - things will surely already be complicated enough.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zach and Holly View Post
    Haha, I know I'll get yelled at for my naive view, but if you're going to have a safety on, may as well carry unchambered. I know I know....but in a heated situation, will you remember to pop that safety off in the instant you need to pull the trigger? Likewise, will you remember to rack that slide in the instant you need it. Or have time either way. Some would also say however that a pocket carry (even unchambered) is faster than having to unbolt your holster to draw. Practice makes perfect in all instances I suppose. But for a carry weapon, I don't like a safety. I wanted one originally; but am now glad the LCP doesn't have one. One less thing to worry about really (and to mess with).
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  13. #13
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    my personal opinion is that if you need a safety on the gun to feel "comfortable," there may be mindset and training issues that need to be resolved.

    That said, I don't see a problem with carrying a weapon that happens to have a safety...just don't let it be a "crutch" or take the place of sound gunhandling skills. I used to carry a 1911, now I carry a Glock. My comfort level has not changed because of the presence or lack of a manual safety (it has changed because now I carry a reliable gun but that's another thread ).
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

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  14. #14
    Member Array Jaystekan's Avatar
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    I was a Kahr guy for quite some time. As we all know Kahrs have no manual safeties. I never had a problem with it, although it kinda freaked out my wife. I personally could go eithet way on the safety issue. Training and smarts is your best safety. I now carry an xd. It has the grip safety, which I must admit, I kinda like. The scariest part of carrying my kahr was holstering. I was always afraid of iwb holstering one-handed, I was worried about the trigger catching on my pants or shirt. With the xd, no worries, just keep my hand off the grip safety. Otherwise, I personally see no need in a manual safety.
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  15. #15
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by surprise View Post
    A safety doesnt make the weapon safe.
    A safety can't keep your finger of the trigger, you mean.

    A safety can, indeed, help guard against problems. Think about a one-handed reholster, with a Glock 19 versus a cocked-and-locked Commander. Should you blow the indexing and miss the holster but catch an "ear" of the holster on the trigger, a pistol without a formal safety is much more likely to fire without intention.

    Ain't nothin' for certain. IMO, all safeties do is layer the coverage. In the end, as many have noted, it's what's between the ears that matters most.

    That being said, I choose to go without manual frame safeties on my pistols, as a preference. Have carried with a safety before, and that was fine.
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