Is the Ruger LCP safe to carry with a loaded chamber???? - Page 3

Is the Ruger LCP safe to carry with a loaded chamber????

This is a discussion on Is the Ruger LCP safe to carry with a loaded chamber???? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by mr surveyor , as for the "drop safe" characteristic of the KT pistols, it's because of the ultra-light firing pin not having ...

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Thread: Is the Ruger LCP safe to carry with a loaded chamber????

  1. #31
    Member Array conwic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr surveyor View Post
    , as for the "drop safe" characteristic of the KT pistols, it's because of the ultra-light firing pin not having enough mass to produce the inertia required to strike the primer in a muzzle down drop. I would suppose that since Ruger did such a fine job copying the P3AT, they also used the same firing mechanisms as well.surv

    That would be the p-11, though it is an ultra light HAMMER, not a firing pin, that makes it semi drop safe. For the CLP, Ruger copied the Kel Tec P3AT, which like the P-32 and PF-9 , uses a very different firing system than the P-11, one that is drop safe.

    Regards-conwic


  2. #32
    Senior Member Array mr surveyor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by conwic View Post
    That would be the p-11, though it is an ultra light HAMMER, not a firing pin, that makes it semi drop safe. For the CLP, Ruger copied the Kel Tec P3AT, which like the P-32 and PF-9 , uses a very different firing system than the P-11, one that is drop safe.

    Regards-conwic


    you may be correct, but it has always been my understanding that the "light weight firing pin" was an integral part of the overall safety of all the KT pistols. Now, there is the hammer block that prevents the hammer from falling (from where though??) on the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled to cycle the hammer through the full cocked position. I had always figured that the reason for the lightweight firing pin was to eliminate the need for an integral firing pin block, similar to the move from 1911 "Series 70" to "Series 80" safety features.

    I may be totally off base, as it would not be the first time.

    I'll keep looking back through the archives for what gave me the idea that the lightweight firing pin was itself intended to be a safety mechanism.

    surv

  3. #33
    Member Array Puppy's Avatar
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    This may be slightly off the topic, but recently one of my range buddies brought his son to the range. The son is a career army guy.

    He was "stunned" to learn that we carry one in the "pipe". He said that was against all safety rules.

    I tried to point out that as a soldier, he was always with a group, squad level or larger. That 9 times out of 10 they knew when they were going into a firefight, and that for them it made sense to not keep one in the pipe until their C.O. told them too do so.

    I pointed out that people who carry for self defense are likely to be alone; that the bad guys will probably have the advantage because they already know what they intend to do and you will be behind the 8 ball if you have to rack the slide.

    What else should I have told him?

  4. #34
    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puppy View Post
    What else should I have told him?
    Sounds like you did just fine.

  5. #35
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    Didn't read the whole thread, but if a pistol is not safe to carry fully loaded (the way it's supposed to be), then you need a new pistol.
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

    If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

    Matt K.

  6. #36
    Member Array braindonor's Avatar
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    You will only get a light strike that will faintly mark the primer.
    If that is what happens when the gun is dropped while half cocked, it isn't safe. There is NO guaranteed that a light primer strike won't do the job on one of the dozens of varieties of ammo out there.

    As for California, a loaded chamber indicator and safety aren't required. Kahr's don't have them and many are listed. A drop test is required and yes it is a pita for the manufacturer, AND they have to be renewed periodically. Ruger has about a hundred pistols listed, and unless they have taken a step backward in the LCP's design, it will be there eventually.


    Edit: I take it back, since Jan 1, 2007 new guns added to the list require mag disconnect and loaded chamber indicator. If the gun was on the list previously it can stay.

  7. #37
    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    Ruger history

    IIRC....

    Wasn't there a recall of the original single action Ruger revolvers and a free upgrade of parts? The transfer bar came from this, correct?

    Then the P85 had a recall for firing when dropped and with failures of the decocker. These recalls were given a "MK II" stamp on the safety lever, and eventually became the P89. I have one of each.

    The new SR9 has an ongoing recall for....... That's it, firing when dropped. I don't own one of these yet.


    No wonder they put that in the manual.

  8. #38
    Member Array conwic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by braindonor View Post
    If that is what happens when the gun is dropped while half cocked, it isn't safe. There is NO guaranteed that a light primer strike won't do the job on one of the dozens of varieties of ammo out there.

    An indentation in the primer is the worst that would happen. I would expect that the hammer block would hold the hammer and nothing would happen.

    Just how dangerous is an indentation on the primer? I don't know. I do know that everytime you chamber a round in an M-16, you put an indentation on the primer. I remember that from Viet Nam. Recently this trait was rediscovered in Iraqi. Quote from report on U.S. Army weapons in Iraqi at http://www.bob-oracle.com/SWATreport.htm



    .... the team observed light primer indentation occurrences in the M16 series rifles: M4s and M16s. As soldiers locked, loaded and cleared weapons prior to and after operations or as directed, the primer was indented. Upon return to CONUS discussions with weapons engineers revealed that each time a cartridge is chambered in an M16 Series Rifle or M4 Series Carbine, a slight indentation is made on the primer. This is caused by contact of the free-floating firing pin against the cartridge primer as the bolt closes. This is a function associated with normal operation of the weapon. The Army conducted tests to investigate the effects of multiple detents on 5.56mm ammunition. No slam fire, or accidental discharges occurred.

    Interesting thought- especially since I believe that the M-1 and M-14 also had free floating firing pins.


    for what it's worth-conwic

  9. #39
    Member Array soundguy1969's Avatar
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    Very well then

    Quote Originally Posted by mtcraigco View Post
    Yep, +10

    It's no more dangerous to carry with one in the chamber than to carry a (modern) revolver with one under the hammer

    As a side note, we will be coming out with a holster spefically tailored to the new LCP, we'll probably call it the MiniClip.

    Look for it to be available before the end of July.
    That is what I wanted to know. Sounds like the gun is a good deal. NOW, I just have to find one.

    BTW, Mark makes some of the best holsters I have seen, and they are very reasonable. I have purchased 3 and love them.

  10. #40
    New Member Array toddorts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soundguy1969 View Post
    That is what I wanted to know. Sounds like the gun is a good deal. NOW, I just have to find one.
    Go to gunbroker.com. That's where I got mine. Otherwise, you'll probably be sitting on a waiting list for a while at your local gun shop.

  11. #41
    Senior Member Array HowardCohodas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddorts View Post
    Go to gunbroker.com. That's where I got mine. Otherwise, you'll probably be sitting on a waiting list for a while at your local gun shop.
    That's where I got mine. Got a good price (same as local shop including shipping). Transaction was professional and fast.
    Howard
    I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop!!
    Politically Incorrect Self Defense

  12. #42
    Member Array razz's Avatar
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    LCP discharged when it was dropped

    My buddy is a cop for a large local police department, he was carrying his LCP in a Bianchi or Galco IWB holster while on a date(off duty). While at a resturant a waiter carrying a tray of icy drinks spills them on his head, soaking him to his drawers. A waiter offers him an employee shirt, while pulling his shirt off his holstered LCP comes with it and lands on the rear of the slide and discharges. No one was injured, just temporarily deaf, they could'nt find the bullet hole. They called the police, made a report and gave him his pistol back. The owners manual states that if dropped or struck the pistol may fire.

    Just a heads up.

    RugerForum.com :: View topic - LCP & Accidental Discharge

  13. #43
    Senior Member Array mr surveyor's Avatar
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    The "story" on the Ruger forum has a lot of holes in it, and I don't think any of those holes were caused by rounds having been discharged from the tube of an LCP that landed on the rear of it's slide from a waist high drop.

    just my observations

    surv

  14. #44
    Senior Member Array CR2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razz View Post
    My buddy is a cop for a large local police department, he was carrying his LCP in a Bianchi or Galco IWB holster while on a date(off duty). While at a resturant a waiter carrying a tray of icy drinks spills them on his head, soaking him to his drawers. A waiter offers him an employee shirt, while pulling his shirt off his holstered LCP comes with it and lands on the rear of the slide and discharges. No one was injured, just temporarily deaf, they could'nt find the bullet hole. They called the police, made a report and gave him his pistol back. The owners manual states that if dropped or struck the pistol may fire.

    Just a heads up.

    RugerForum.com :: View topic - LCP & Accidental Discharge
    Man, that's serious... I would not carry a gun that could discharge if dropped... what if the carrier's gun did not drop but his body fell or was slammed down in an attack etc could the gun discharge INSIDE the holster?

    Sounds like an easy way to lose some testicles
    http://www.bloombergfightbackfund.com/
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  15. #45
    Member Array conwic's Avatar
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    When reading that "story" I couldn't help but be reminded of the one drop test that no handgun can pass. That's the one where you drop the gun, instinctively grab at it as it falls, and end up grabbing it by the trigger. Oddly enough, no matter how many internal safety devices the gun has, it will fire when you pull the trigger.

    conwic

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