June 23rd, 2008 11:59 AM
Walther P22 for CCW
I know there are countless self-made experts who will howl in disgust at this but I've found the little P22 loaded with CCI copper plated hollow points to be ideal for my purposes. Yes, I'll agree a .45 is "closer" to ideal (only a 9 shot 12 gauge pump would be ideal), and I do have a Glock 30 that I shoot very well thank you, but it feels like a brick hanging from my hip and prints like one too.
What with gun laws being what they are here in NC, and most other places, it is paramount that a gun be invisible and for me that means pocket carry, especially in summer. It seems obvious that the requirements for a carry gun be, 1)there when you need it, 2)reliable, 3)unseen until drawn.
As for one shot stopping power, I have to believe no one but a fool (and perhaps a drunk redneck) wants to be shot with ANY gun and it's obvious there have been countless cases where the simple display of a gun has made the slimeballs run like scared rabbits.
As for the gun itself, of all the many pistols I've owned over the years, only my Glock 30 and Walther P22 have been perfectly reliable from the first pull of the trigger! It is very accurate and well made of entirely suitable materials regardless of the moans and groans at the use of plastic and zinc castings.
In the end am I better off with this P22 or no gun at all? I'll go with the P22 and hope for the best as there ARE situations, such as multiple intruders armed with sawed off shotguns and Uzi's, where nothing short of Claymore mines would get the job done.
June 23rd, 2008 12:05 PM
If you are comfortable with it, go for it. I personally would not trust any .22 cal. round to protect me from an attack. If that is all I had, that is what I would use. For a little of nothing you can get any of several different guns that are not much larger than your P22, but have much larger bullets that are more suited for self defense.
B.T.W. Welcome from central Mississippi.
June 23rd, 2008 12:06 PM
June 23rd, 2008 12:15 PM
I think I'll pull a seat up next to you JD, I got an extra bag of candy I'll share.
June 23rd, 2008 12:22 PM
As a back up gun I can see using the 22LR with the hottest ammo you can find. As a primary defense weapon to stop an assailant you would need to place your shots in the cranial occipital region.
If you are protecting yourself from small varmints then you are good to go.
Oh, and welcome to the forum.
June 23rd, 2008 12:31 PM
First, let me say welcome!
Sixto, pass the skittles!
In all seriousness, if that's what you are comfortable with who is anyone to judge, but that being said I'll quote a post I made in another thread dealing with .22LR as a carry caliber.
Our bodies are amazing, wonderful machines that are designed to operate under the most unique of conditions.
They SHOULDN'T fall down because of a little hole punched in them. They shouldn't even fall down with a BIG hole punched in them, and often they don't.
I've read countless stories of people being involved in a combination of everything from handgun and rifle bullets, shrapnel, explosions, natural disasters and dismemberment and they are still here today.
A kid in my home town tried to kill himself by putting a shotgun under his chin.
He's blind, disfigured, suffers from SEVER speech impediment, chronic migraines and his sinuses barely function but he's alive and depressed enough about failing in his suicide attempt that my brother-in-law helped transfer him to a mental hospital where he will probably live out the rest of his life. But the boy is fully aware and undoubtedly still alive even with the majority of the front of his head missing.
My point is that there is no assurance that anything you throw at a determined attacker is going to stop them. Not in 2, 7, 10 or 20 shots.
The human body is designed to stay alive, no matter what it takes. It protects itself from the extremest of conditions and we are always finding ourself amazed at what it can live through.
My own brother took a 12GA slug to the side and blew out four inches of flesh on his left side.
He took off his shirt, wrapped it around his wound, walked over a mile to his vehicle, drove five more miles to our home, took a shower and after finally realizing he couldn't stop the bleeding on his own, went down stairs and asked my father to take him to the hospital.
He was about as pale as a laundry basket full of whites and his eyes were very glazed and he looked extremely tired, but he didn't even need a transfusion. Just orange juice, a tetanus shot and an embarrassing talk with a police officer about his little hunting accident.
It's already been well established that a .22 can kill someone. It very well could be instantaneous. But it also could take days. Whether it be instant, from damage from the bullet, slow internal blood loss or infection days after the incident, a .22 is certainly nothing to scoff at.
However, it's also a very well established fact that there is no magic caliber and you are not guaranteed any sort of results.
The best we can hope for is a) that the sight of our firearm is enough to convince a bad guy he no longer wants to mess with us b) that if need be, our bullets hit something disabling enough to bring them down quickly (the heart, a vital part of the brain, a lung or two) or c) that we cause enough wound tract damage to make it physically impossible for them to continue their attack (their hand no longer works because tendons and muscles have been shredded by our expanding hollow points; they can no longer run because a knee is blown out; and so on).
If a hand grenade can fail to do that.. If a shotgun can fail to do that.. If a rifle can fail to do that.. If a .45 or a 9mm.. or a 10mm or any other caliber can fail to do that.. what makes you think a .22 is going to take that cake?
However, even though there are no guarantees, you do have a better chance with one choice over another. Yeah, if asked, I'd take a shotgun over a handgun in self defense ANY DAY, but I can't carry a shotgun so I stick with a handgun. I carry a .45ACP most of the time, but have no problem with and sometimes carry everything from .40S&W to .357Mag to 9mm and .380. I won't, however, go any lower than .380. I'm already taking a chance with only defending myself with a handgun, I'm not going to lower my chances further by picking a smaller caliber.
And because I know I still have no guarantees I also carry pepper spray, a knife or two or three, spare magazines or speed loaders, a phone and I'm not above begging God for a break or an edge either.
The other day I was considering a hypothetical scenario about being attacked, close quarters, by three men. I looked at it from a couple possible angles, thought up how I would try to respond and then I bowed my head and prayed.
My exact words were, "God, I don't want to hurt anyone and I pray I never have to. Please, give me the knowledge and foresight to stay away from questionable situations. But if I can't avoid them all, give me the wisdom to know when to act and what to do, the steady hands to do what must be done, and guide my bullets true."
A good firearms instructor of mine said, "Never rely on a magic caliber to save your life. EXPECT it to take all the ammo in your gun, all the ammo in your spare mag, for you to have to beat the guy to death with your empty gun and then cut off his head with your pocket knife. That way, if it ends before all that, you can be glad it ended early."
My faith isn't in my caliber, it isn't even in my gun alone, it's in my will to do whatever it takes to stay alive and my willingness to use whatever tool is at hand (be it a gun, a stick, a remote control or a toy poodle) to come home to my family.
June 23rd, 2008 12:33 PM
<slides in next to JD and SIXTO and starts eying that bag of candy>
Originally Posted by SIXTO
Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.
June 23rd, 2008 12:36 PM
Lima and Lump ate it all, save my seat, I'll go get more.
Originally Posted by Bumper
June 23rd, 2008 12:37 PM
in all seriousness, are you talking about a 3" or 5" model? You are correct in thinking you are better with a P22 than nothing, but there are better choices. I had a 5", and while it was very thin and make a great shape for a CCW, I wouldn't. Not going to touch on the .22 caliber topic, but I found it to lack accuracy and never cared for the trigger pull or short grip.
may I recommend a pocket gun, snub nosed revolver, or tiny semi (3"1911?) Stop by your local gun store and handle a few. You'll be suprised at the size of some.
In the same price range, I have, and recommend over the P22 a Beretta Tomcat ( or Keltec if you wanna). Won't have a problem printing
Change your dress a little and anything can be hidden. I wore a fullsized 1911 earlier this week for 5 hours with just a dark tshirt. A g30 shouldn't be too bad to carry. Understand that noone will critique your dress as much as you do in the mirror. How many threads on here are about open carrying and people not even noticing?
June 23rd, 2008 12:39 PM
Many of the "self-made experts" have shot people, or (as in my case) plugged holes in shot people.
Originally Posted by zelenkajl
I have also owned a P22. I now own a Ruger MkII.
In short, you would be better served by a $50 Spyderco or Benchmade knife and a bit of instruction, but you'll never be convinced of that.
Anybody got sugar-free GummyBears? I'm diabetic...
June 23rd, 2008 12:45 PM
First, if you are comfortable with it then carry a .22LR
I would keep track of how many FTF you have with rimfire vs. centerfire.
I personally don't carry anything smaller than .380.
That said I'm going to get a bag of Popcorn and a 48 oz Bladder Buster of Coke and enjoy the show.
“You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”
― Robert A. Heinlein,
June 23rd, 2008 12:52 PM
A .22LR in your hand is better than having a .45 ACP sitting in your night stand at home in a SD encounter on the street....Anygun is better than only your cell Phone!
Would not be my first choice! But at least you are making the choice to carry Something!
I'll take Peanut M&M's POR FAVOR!
“Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll
Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!
June 23rd, 2008 12:57 PM
All that being said, WHY go with a P22? You've got small frame revolvers, plus semi-automatics from Kahr, NAA, Keltec, Glock; Sig, Ruger and others that are SMALLER than the P22 and just as light in a much higher caliber.
Originally Posted by zelenkajl
My wife has a P22 that she uses for plinking and sometimes uses as a back-up; however, it is VERY picky with ammo and everyone else I've ever talked to had the same experience.
June 23rd, 2008 01:20 PM
What kind of holster doesn't carry the gun well for you?
Originally Posted by zelenkajl
What position are you carrying it? 3:00? 1:00? 4:00?
Have you tried any other holsters?
How do you dress, and can you change your dress to fit the G-30 better?
June 23rd, 2008 01:55 PM
Pocket carry a Kel-Tec .380. Nobody will know it's there. Much better than .22, 7 rounds.
When you can untuck a t-shirt, even a ~ 6' 160lb guy can OWB conceal a full size glock with a good belt and high-rise holster. If you have issues with weapons feeling too heavy, try a better belt. Good belts will distribute the weight over your whole waist, not just at the holster.
Some printing will always occur - even with pocket carry - but the trick is to make it not LOOK like a pistol.
A .22 is still effective, though.
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