Why is there no 9mm PPK/S?

[Rob87]

I've been thinking about this a lot. Why hasn't Walther chambered the PPK/S in 9mm? I mean, think about it:

- The .380 ACP is regarded as the minimum self-defense round
- Many consider the 9mm to be the minimum
- The jump from a 9x17mm round to a 9x19mm round isn't much
- There's enough space in the PPK/S currently for an extra 2mm
- A lot of people love the size and weight of the PPK/S, but don't want a .380

So why haven't they done it by now? I'd think this'd be a "no-brainer" for Walther; take one of the most popular handguns, chamber it in the most popular handgun round, and then sit back and look at the profit.

Any ideas why they haven't done it? Any ideas on how we could get them to do it?

Mass email campaign, anyone? :D

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[ccw9mm]

- The jump from a 9x17mm round to a 9x19mm round isn't much

That jump results in twice the pressures to be withstood by the gun (~19Kpsi vs ~38Kpsi). Not all .380 chambered handguns are built to handle that jump.

Though, one would think that Walther/Smith could do it. The Colt mini .45's are stout. The HK P2000SK, Springfield EMP, Para Ordnance PDA are all 9mm capable. Though, there are .380's sufficiently smaller to entice.

Kahr's done a number with their PM9. They're coming out with the P380. Those two are about the smallest and lightest out there.

[Rob87]

I know that the pressure jump would likely be the largest hurdle for Walther/S&W, but keep in mind that (1) it could be done, and (2) they might just have to use sturdier materials.

Can it be done? Of course it can. Why they haven't is what I want to know. :P

[ppkheat]

I'd consider buying one.

That's a good question and I surely don't know the answer, other than a few guesses?

1. The company doesn't want to spend the money on the research and development to produce a 9mm ppk.

2. Market research may have indicated not enough buyer interest.

3. They are concerned that a 9mm ppk would break up the tradition/nostalgia of the .380 model.

4. Sometimes company management can surely make a bad decision and overlook/ignore something critical to their business. I think they have experience there? Sometimes the decisions reflect the philosophy of the current managers, i.e. if Bill Ruger were alive today, would they have produced the LCP?

Whatever the exact reason, the common denominator is going to be money, and really that's okay.......if they don't make a profit they'll eventually go out of business.

Write a letter to S&W about it and post their response. I'll bet I can come pretty close to the gist of their response right now. "Thank you for contacting us.........we at S&W are committed........we appreciate your suggestion.........our quality products.........please visit our website.........

[Hivoltage]

I think James Bond would buy a couple of them

[Laserlips]

I've been thinking about this a lot. Why hasn't Walther chambered the PPK/S in 9mm? I mean, think about it:

So why haven't they done it by now? I'd think this'd be a "no-brainer" for Walther;

Rob:

Here ya go.

First, Walther will never make the PPK in 9mm because Walther does not own the rights to produce the PPK anymore.. Those mfg. rights now belong to Smith & Wesson. In fact S&W is mfg. their own PPK now, with an extended "tang" to reduce slide bite, and perhaps other changes.

Walther replaced the PPS with the 9mm (and 40cal) PPS. The PPS (Police Pistol Slim) has been on the market since late last year (2007), but is still a bit difficult to find in most markets.

I have owned a PPS since January. My first PPS was a very early series (14XX) and had ejector problems. It was replaced by S&W (who does the warranty work for Walther on this model) with a new one in the 41XX range, and this replacement PPS has been fine.

The PPS is extremely THIN, and I should think lighter than the old PPK.

I am not "anti-PPK" as I think the design is a classic, and the pistol is beautiful.. But, the PPK was prone to bite the hand that shot it, the DA trigger pull was heavy, and a lot of them were ammo sensitive. Apparently if you got a "good"PPK, it was good forever, but if you got a PPK with problems, it had problems forever.

So, sadly for PPK fans no 9mm PPK's will be coming down the pike.

I do recommend the Walther PPS.. It's an ugly little sucker (especially when compared to the classic looks of the original PPK's), but it does the job, and conceals quite easily.

Hope this helps,

Best Wishes,

Jesse

[Hume]

The PPK is a direct blowback mechanism. This system implies that the breech remains unlocked and only the recoil spring and the size of the slide affords any measure of resistance or delay when the round goes bang. In contrast, a Browning-type system (in which the 9x19 is typically chambered) has a locked breach that functions with a delay time when the round goes off. This delay allows pressures to drop safely to levels that permit a lighter and more manageable slide to cycle smoothly and reliably.

As such, to chamber a PPK (or any direct blowback pistol) in 9x19 would require a slide so heavy and clunky that it would defeat the purpose of a slim pocket pistol. There have been and are attempts to chamber the 9x19 in a direct blowback pistol. For instance, the much maligned Hi Point pistol is one such model. Have you handled one? It is unwieldy, to say the least.

The 9x19 subcompact pistols mentioned above are locked breach pistols with heavier springs and slides (in contrast to their service pistol size brethren) that tame the higher pressures of the 9x19 round. This design is why they are fatter than any .380 Auto pistol such as the PPK. I have not tried the PPS, but I have shot extensively the Glock 26 and the H&K P2000sk. Both are fine weapons that will stand up to a lot of shooting.

FWIW, the Russion Makarov is a direct blowback design that shoots a round (the 9x18 Mak) that is considered to be the upper limit of what a direct blowback pistol can handle without becoming too unwieldy. This wheel was re-invented in the 1970s when Walther briefly produced a similar round called the 9x18 Ultra and chambered it in service-sized Walther PP. Anything larger than these two rounds in a direct blowback pistol is neither practical nor aesethically interesting.

[IsaiahM33]

Of course Walther still owns the "rights." Smith and Wesson are only "licensed" to produce the PPK/S. They own nothing.

[ripley16]

Walther did produce the PP Super, which chambered the 9mm Super, (or Ultra) round. It evidently wasn't very popular. Recoil would be fierce in a PPK/S 9mm, without some way to reduce the force. It would be a handful, no doubt unpleasant to shoot. A blowback action would need a very heavy spring, such as the Astra 400 et. al. It just isn't practical when better solutions exist.

[trustingman62]

I bought a great little carry gun that is so very close to the PPK in fact it is beleived that the Polish completely copied the PPK when they developed the model P64 as their standard military and Police side arm. The gun fires an 9x18 Makarov round. The gun has worked flawless and is very accurate. These are available through the web and can be shipped to a C&R licensed buyer. They break down exactly like a PPK, have a fixed barrel blow back design and are the same size as the PPK.

The PPK is a direct blowback mechanism. This system implies that the breech remains unlocked and only the recoil spring and the size of the slide affords any measure of resistance or delay when the round goes bang. In contrast, a Browning-type system (in which the 9x19 is typically chambered) has a locked breach that functions with a delay time when the round goes off. This delay allows pressures to drop safely to levels that permit a lighter and more manageable slide to cycle smoothly and reliably.

As such, to chamber a PPK (or any direct blowback pistol) in 9x19 would require a slide so heavy and clunky that it would defeat the purpose of a slim pocket pistol. There have been and are attempts to chamber the 9x19 in a direct blowback pistol. For instance, the much maligned Hi Point pistol is one such model. Have you handled one? It is unwieldy, to say the least.

The 9x19 subcompact pistols mentioned above are locked breach pistols with heavier springs and slides (in contrast to their service pistol size brethren) that tame the higher pressures of the 9x19 round. This design is why they are fatter than any .380 Auto pistol such as the PPK. I have not tried the PPS, but I have shot extensively the Glock 26 and the H&K P2000sk. Both are fine weapons that will stand up to a lot of shooting.

FWIW, the Russion Makarov is a direct blowback design that shoots a round (the 9x18 Mak) that is considered to be the upper limit of what a direct blowback pistol can handle without becoming too unwieldy. This wheel was re-invented in the 1970s when Walther briefly produced a similar round called the 9x18 Ultra and chambered it in service-sized Walther PP. Anything larger than these two rounds in a direct blowback pistol is neither practical nor aesethically interesting.

[archer51]

I've been thinking about this a lot. Why hasn't Walther chambered the PPK/S in 9mm? I mean, think about it:

- The .380 ACP is regarded as the minimum self-defense round
- Many consider the 9mm to be the minimum
- The jump from a 9x17mm round to a 9x19mm round isn't much
- There's enough space in the PPK/S currently for an extra 2mm
- A lot of people love the size and weight of the PPK/S, but don't want a .380

So why haven't they done it by now? I'd think this'd be a "no-brainer" for Walther; take one of the most popular handguns, chamber it in the most popular handgun round, and then sit back and look at the profit.

Any ideas why they haven't done it? Any ideas on how we could get them to do it?

Mass email campaign, anyone? :D

Bond never could understand why the PPK was chambered in .380. His was a .32ACP and was more than enough gun for what he needed.

[Cuda66]

Look up the operating pressure of a 9mm and a .380...

The PPK is blowback operated. Check out a HiPoint to see what the slide looks like on a blowback operated 9x19...

[MJB_17]

Ask Q Branch...


You know it's kind of funny that the PPK is known as the 'gun of James Bond', I've read all of the original novels and short stories and Bond actually uses a bunch of different guns. At various times he has, among others, the PPK, a Colt Detective Special .38, Colt Python .44, .25 Beretta and a few others I can't recall right now.

[OD*]

Ask Q Branch...


You know it's kind of funny that the PPK is known as the 'gun of James Bond', I've read all of the original novels and short stories and Bond actually uses a bunch of different guns. At various times he has, among others, the PPK, a Colt Detective Special .38, Colt Python .44, .25 Beretta and a few others I can't recall right now.

Colt Python .44, Q make that special for him?

[ripley16]

Colt Python .44, Q make that special for him?

Q did a nice trigger job and installed a telphone in the grip.

If someone really wants a PPK sized gun, then go buy a Rohrbaugh. If a Bond girl can use one, maybe the man himself can too.