A Useless Feature
This is a discussion on A Useless Feature within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by rachilders
On the other hand they can serve a purpose, though I wouldn't bet my life on it .
Having thought a ...
November 20th, 2005 05:42 PM
Having thought a bit more about it, that is my argument against it.
Originally Posted by rachilders
The thought of new shooters and new guns with all the so-called "lawyer safeties" bothers me greatly.
I imagine the natural tendency of folks to ignore the tried and true rules because the gun does it for them...and that's a scary thought.
November 20th, 2005 05:50 PM
Quote from the Kahr manual:
"The loaded chamber indicator should never be used as an "unloaded chamber indicator" - meaning that it should never be used by a firearm handler to confirm that a chamber is empty, to the exclusion of manually checking the chamber as explained....The user must know that the surest method to determine the absence of a round in the chamber is to visually and manually check the chamber of the firearm by pulling and locking the slide to the rear."
This quote is in red ink and is listed as a safety warning. I know it's not like most of us guys to read instructions or ask directions, but...
As far as I'm concerned, the fewer doodads on a CCW piece, the less I have to think about in a time when concentration on matters at hand is tantamount. Be safe...
noli nothis permittere te terere...
November 20th, 2005 05:55 PM
The Glock's extractor performs a similar function. When its outer face is parallel to the slide surface, it's being held there by a chambered cartridge. When nothing's in the chamber, the extractor leans in slightly. Hard to see even in full daylight. A Walther P38 I used to own had a little pin that would stick out of the rear of the slide just above the hammer; you could easily feel this one even in complete darkness.
This "press check" I keep hearing about... Is this something for people who frequently carry with no round in the pipe? When I set up a pistol for carry, I chamber a round and it stays this way for maybe a couple of weeks until I fire off the carry ammunition at the range. I have no need to check if it's loaded, ever. Of course it is.
November 20th, 2005 07:18 PM
Well I know that I check mine every morning before I put it on.
Originally Posted by Anubis
November 20th, 2005 07:22 PM
VIP Member (Retired Staff)
My SW99 too, same!!! Same as P99 - of course!
It does not irk me too much because I totally ignore it - and carry on as usual with MY safety drills - not using some design feature that could ruin someone's day - perhaps!
My safety (points to cranium) - is up here.
I think ''press-check'' is really just a reassurance to make sure one in the pipe - same as a reassurance to see empty chamber if that is what is desired. Never any harm in re-checking, for whatever condition - but yes anyways - my guns are always loaded - only way to go - even after two or three checks for clear - still loaded
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member. "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."http://www.rkba-2a.com/
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November 20th, 2005 07:38 PM
i agree as a safety it is worthless and i never use it. possibly it could be helpfull to indicate you are being handed a loaded weapon at the range but then again if you visually inspect the chamber and treat it as loaded anyway and there is no need for it.
November 20th, 2005 09:08 PM
The ready status of any firearm should be checked ritually every time it is out of your direct control -- say, when you put it on in the morning after sleeping, or after you take it out of the safe. This is just sound practice to make sure it's ready to go.
This "press check" I keep hearing about... Is this something for people who frequently carry with no round in the pipe?
November 20th, 2005 09:59 PM
Yes...just the thought process that an 'indicator' tries to replace.
Originally Posted by Phil Elmore
Not for us, but for the future shooters.
Damn the blissninny morons that don't have a clue.
Sorry...It's a PO'd kinda day.
November 20th, 2005 11:51 PM
Originally Posted by Phil Elmore
November 21st, 2005 05:55 PM
Then again, my XD is the only gun I can do a chamber check on with it completely holstered. So if I needed to be sure, but it wasn't quite time to disclose the gun, it can be pretty reassuring to know your gun is chambered. It's also a completely silent check.
I suppose it could false indicate, but what are the chances? In fact, how would it do it?
November 21st, 2005 06:07 PM
I don't know but I still don't trust it.
November 21st, 2005 06:19 PM
I've never had a problem with the chamber indicator on any of my XDs. I've heard of a few breaking and coming off, but that wouldn't make it indicate loaded, it would indicate not loaded, necessitating a press check.
I think it's an unnecessary and unprecipitated worry. It does have advantages as previously mentioned: easy to check in the dark, while holstered, and silently. And, you don't have to do a higher risk press check.
November 22nd, 2005 02:14 AM
It's big these days. They are put there, in my opinion, to get by in the states, like Mass, who have these stupid safety feature regulations. No other reasons.
But, in reality, LCI's have been around for decades. I think they first came into being with the Walther PPK's.
"I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie. Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong." Denny Crane:
November 22nd, 2005 08:50 AM
I think we may be "down" on something that is useful and essentially benign in function. Like Lawrence said, "...LCI's have been around for decades...".
The XD LCI, which was also on its predecessor, the HS2000, is the best I've seen on a gun. Most tend to make the indicator a part of the extractor and they can be quite difficult to be sure that the chamber is loaded, especially in the dark, under stressful conditions or both. Or they are simply a small hole in the top of the chamber that is useless in the dark and the gun must brought close to the eye to visually inspect if it's light.
The XD LCI is easy, quick, and sure - there's just no mistake. Plus it's in a much more convenient location - the top of the slide. The extractor type LCIs are covered by the holster, but the XD LCI can be accessed while completely holstered if the holster has any kind of "speed cut" at all.
Imagine this scenario. You've got a business associate with you in the car and you start to get out and you want to be sure that your gun has a round chambered, but you need to do it discretely. How do you do it? With the XD, as you get out, you simply check the LCI and nobody sees or knows what you did.
November 22nd, 2005 01:18 PM
Did any of the guns that originally had loaded chamber indicators NOT have a slide stop that held the slide back after the last shot? If that were the case, perhaps its reason for existance was to indicate to the operator if he had to rack the slide after a reload. (If your last round from the original mag was in the chamber and you just reloaded, you wouldn't want to throw away that round. But you also wouldn't want to get back into the fight and have the gun go, "click".)
There's a reason The Sopranos
is set in New Jersey. Basic Pistol
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