Is Cocked And Locked Dangerous?

This is a discussion on Is Cocked And Locked Dangerous? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Sounds like a personal civil liability problem to me, but what the heck, I've always carried in Condition 1 ever since I my first 1911. ...

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Thread: Is Cocked And Locked Dangerous?

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array CLASS3NH's Avatar
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    Sounds like a personal civil liability problem to me, but what the heck, I've always carried in Condition 1 ever since I my first 1911. I'd never turn back either, even if it was to satisty a "feel good" clause. I'm going to have make sure I have every atvantage over some BG that attempts an altercation with me.
    Why Waltz when you can Rock-N-Roll

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array raevan's Avatar
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    I have always carried condition 1. My view, If I am in front of a Judge having to explain why, then I survived, I am alive and it definatly was not an accidental discharge, it was self defence. I did wat was needed to stay alive.

  4. #18
    Member Array joe/OH's Avatar
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    Have there ever been any documented cases where someone was convicted on the basis that their gun was single action? Or is the criminal liability thing just speculation?

  5. #19
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    Stupid Lawyer Tricks
    That is exactly it. They can do the same with the 3.5lb trigger on a half-cock Glock.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Diligentia Vis Celeritas"

    "There is very little new, and the forgotten is constantly being rediscovered."
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  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe/OH
    Have there ever been any documented cases where someone was convicted on the basis that their gun was single action? Or is the criminal liability thing just speculation?
    None that I have ever seen.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Diligentia Vis Celeritas"

    "There is very little new, and the forgotten is constantly being rediscovered."
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  7. #21
    Senior Member Array Free American's Avatar
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    YES, it is extremely dangerous.....

    For anyone attempting to harm a person carrying that way. Honestly, when you look at it almost any gun is carried "cocked and locked" it's the exposed hammer that makes people edgy. Think about it, and I understand the DA/SA difference, but once you release the safety (if it exists...Glock) all you have to do is pull the trigger.
    They who give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin


    Previously known as "cjm5874"

  8. #22
    Member Array sarhog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier762
    While we may know that our gun is set for a perfectly acceptable 4 pound break, the prosecutor is going to have each and every juror dry fire the piece in the jury box. To the ignorant and uninformed, that thing is going to go CLICK real easy...and the prosecution is going to crow: Ladies and gentlemen! See how EASY that was? I submit that the defendant did not know...could not know.... that in the heat of this extreme stress situation this weapon was going to discharge and kill...yada yada yada....
    To which you answer, "No, I actually made a concious and deliberate decision to press the trigger."
    IMHO, don't worry about any of the legal "what ifs". If it's a justified shoot, it's...well, justified.
    If we all worry about what a lawyer might say, or worry about the composition of a future jury, we ain't doing ourselves any favors.
    JMHO, I am not a lawyer, etc, etc.
    Good luck. :)
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  9. #23
    Distinguished Member Array RSSZ's Avatar
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    I feel that people just cannot get passed the cocked,fully back,ominious lookin',hammer"ready to strike" the bullet,if it falls. They probably think of revo's with the firing pinned hammer in the full cock position. I stopped argueing with these people a long time ago. Some of these people like to argue for the sake of argueing anyway. They are lost causes. If I feel that someone will at least listen to my explanation with an open mind then I will go through my routine. If not then,oh well.----------

  10. #24
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    Exclamation Justified? Maybe. But maybe STILL convicted...

    Quote Originally Posted by sarhog
    If it's a justified shoot, it's...well, justified.
    You've gotta be kidding! Lemme tell you, speaking as a former parole & probation officer....that sounds exactly like the ex-con's plaintive cry in the judicial wilderness: But I was wrongfully convicted! Maybe. But convicted nonetheless. I'd say about 25% of my caseload was just plain folks caught and crushed by the stone wheels of justice because they couldn't afford competent counsel and had to plea bargain something that should never have been brought as a charge. I live in an antigun jurisdiction. It's as foolish as failing to be aware of the backdrop in a shooting situation. I feel it's a personal peace of mind issue. I'm not saying EVERYBODY should adhere to this mindset....it's just my own personal conversion experience (based on lengthy personal observations) from being a fairly dedicated 1911 guy.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  11. #25
    Member Array sarhog's Avatar
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    Well I suppose that our very different perspectives are a product of "anti-gun" vs "pro-gun" jurisdictions.
    I can recall at least 3 justified self-defense shootings in my county in the last 4 months or so....none of the shooters were even arrested, much less charged.
    Just so I'm clear here, these were cases of good guys shooting bad guys while defending themselves or their families. No bystanders were hit, no negligent discharges..... justified shootings.
    Good luck.
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  12. #26
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    Important To Remember

    That with a Series 80 Colt w/ the F. Pin Block EVEN IF the sear broke and the hammer flew forward Full Speed Ahead & SMACKED the Firing Pin...the firing pin CANNOT move forward to contact the primer...because it (the firing pin) is independently blocked.
    The BLOCK cannot move up to unblock the firing pin until the trigger moves rearward & the trigger cannot move rearward until the grip safety is pressed down. What could be safer than that????
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter
    What could be safer than that????
    Perception is everything. Remember, we're not discussing an accident, but rather a volitional act (pulling the trigger -- gun goes BOOM) that may have been done before a conscious decision was made. In other words, a public perception (precipitated by a prosecutor) that in length of pull and weight of pull lies "time to make a proper judgment." Rightly or wrongly. All other things being equal of course. What I'm saying is that a weak case can be made on a lesser charge (manslaughter v murder) more convincingly if the jury puts itself in the place of the judicial model of the "common man" and thus puts the defendant by definition outside that model for the hardware he carries.....if you see where I'm going here....it's late. I'm going to bed.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Wink Please don't get hostile

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueLion
    Well, this just in buddy, I will carry whatever, I need to defend myself most effectively.
    Hey, BlueLion, don't get hostile. As I said before....this is simply MY mindset and I have equipped myself with the simple goal of defending me and mine without having to worry about that single situation later on. In your scenario, I draw my Sig P245 or my H&K (LEM) USP and take them out. The only difference is DA v SA. Period. I simply choose DA for myself, but I'm not saying you and the rest of the 1911 folks here are wrong. Okay everybody? Just food for thought. My .02.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  15. #29
    Member Array 1man's Avatar
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    Who ever has the best laywer that can persuade the jury to think how they think is going to win!
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    Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast!
    "Anything you do can get you killed, including nothing." Murphy's Combat Law

  16. #30
    Senior Member Array BlueLion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier762
    Hey, BlueLion, don't get hostile. As I said before....this is simply MY mindset and I have equipped myself with the simple goal of defending me and mine without having to worry about that single situation later on. In your scenario, I draw my Sig P245 or my H&K (LEM) USP and take them out. The only difference is DA v SA. Period. I simply choose DA for myself, but I'm not saying you and the rest of the 1911 folks here are wrong. Okay everybody? Just food for thought. My .02.
    Hey Exsoldier, no hostility, I am not that kind of guy I actually wrote jokingly. I understand your position and you are entitled to it. I just see all of the safeties in place for the pistol. However, you got me to thinking not saying I will ever stop carrying in this manner, but I will say my next pistol will be a Bersa 45 DA. Thanks again....
    Listen, Think and React.....Nuff Said.....

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