Is Cocked And Locked Dangerous?

This is a discussion on Is Cocked And Locked Dangerous? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by BlueLion Hey Exsoldier, no hostility, I am not that kind of guy I actually wrote jokingly. I understand your position and you ...

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Thread: Is Cocked And Locked Dangerous?

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueLion
    Hey Exsoldier, no hostility, I am not that kind of guy I actually wrote jokingly. I understand your position and you are entitled to it. I just see all of the safeties in place for the pistol. However, you got me to thinking not saying I will ever stop carrying in this manner, but I will say my next pistol will be a Bersa 45 DA. Thanks again....
    No offense taken, certainly! I know you're good people.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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  3. #32
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    Thank you gentlemen - peace prevails

    So good when small misunderstandings are maturely resolved. That is what keeps this board in good shape.
    Chris - P95
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  4. #33
    Member Array RobL's Avatar
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    No offense I am sure that folks that live in anti gun and civil rights anti American places have a good reason but: Why the heck live in an anti gun place???!! Move , live in a free place.
    carry what you want for gosh sakes.
    As for the 1911 cocked and locked so mant police departments have carried it that way it is easy to justify. just like HP ammmo: I was carrying what I know to effective the police carry this same ammo same gun it works for them. It is reasonable and prudent.
    If it aint dangerous, it won't do much good for self desfense now will it?
    Safety is to stay abed.
    Rob
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  5. #34
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    Thumbs down RobL: DUH

    Quote Originally Posted by RobL
    No offense I am sure that folks that live in anti gun and civil rights anti American places have a good reason but: Why the heck live in an anti gun place???!! Move , live in a free place.
    carry what you want for gosh sakes.
    As for the 1911 cocked and locked so mant police departments have carried it that way it is easy to justify. just like HP ammmo: I was carrying what I know to effective the police carry this same ammo same gun it works for them. It is reasonable and prudent.
    If it aint dangerous, it won't do much good for self desfense now will it?
    Safety is to stay abed.
    Rob
    That's simplistic and you know it. Also so many police departments are getting sued because COPS are now products of the anti-gun school curriculums nationwide and as such they HATE guns and it's hard to teach them to overcome propaganda indoctrination. So after a few bad shoots the department invariably changes official doctrine. A lot of cops also can't handle 1911 recoil and the training necessary to sweep the safety under pressure. Hence the reason the GLOCK ranks just about #1. After that are the DA and DAO 9's.

    I don't know about you, but I was always taught there is no such thing as a dangerous weapon ... There are only dangerous people. Dangerous cuts both ways as these police depts being sued for the actions of unsafe cops shows.

    I live in one of most pro-gun STATES in the union. But my job and family are located in one of the few antigun bastions. Liberal doesn't quite describe it. Would you counsel people who live in Austin Texas to move someplace free? Austin is antigun liberal. Folks s'posed to just up and leave their family and their roots? How old are you? You sound like one of the kids I teach.

    Carry what you can when you can and be damn good with it. Learn to protect yourself in EVERY way that you can and that means as much from the aftermath of a SD shooting as the shooting itself! If you fail to think about this before you ever have to draw for real, you are likely looking at a whole lot of anguish and financial suffering, not to mention the potential for jail time. Stupid is as stupid does. Look, I don't mean to be harsh here, but consider what you're saying before you suggest Move someplace free and carry what you want.... Sheeeesh!
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  6. #35
    Member Array RobL's Avatar
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    Sheeeesh, Why live someplace where you fear the courts for being righteous?
    Living in a in a free place is simplistic? It is basic common sense, though I guess it is just one's priorities?
    The aforementioned "It is what the cops carry" is a successful defensive technique in the courtroom sir. Maybe it IS simplistic, but it is proven and it works to convince a jury that you are not trying carrying a in an inherently dangerous manor.
    Survival in the street and in the courts is important. Part of that is residing in a free place. Surely you wouldn't live in a sleazy crime ridden neighborhood and subject your family to the dangers of that? Then why would you live in a place that had a record of ignoring the bill of rights?


    As for the Dangerous gun part it was meant tongue in cheek.
    Lone Wolf Gonzales, a Texas Ranger, was alleged to have said that when asked about his 1911.
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  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobL
    Sheeeesh, Why live someplace where you fear the courts for being righteous?
    Living in a in a free place is simplistic? It is basic common sense, though I guess it is just one's priorities?
    The aforementioned "It is what the cops carry" is a successful defensive technique in the courtroom sir. Maybe it IS simplistic, but it is proven and it works to convince a jury that you are not trying carrying in an inherently dangerous manner.
    Survival in the street and in the courts is important. Part of that is residing in a free place. Surely you wouldn't live in a sleazy crime ridden neighborhood and subject your family to the dangers of that? Then why would you live in a place that had a record of ignoring the bill of rights?
    Some folks can't afford to simply uproot, leave family, friends, church, gun club and run away to never never land. If everybody in formerly antigun Florida (pre-1987) had done that, we'd still be full of antigun county legislation instead of the model "SHALL ISSUE" carry state for the rest of the nation. Instead shooters and NRA members in this state got organized and political and were successful in electing enough progun legislators so that the laws could be successfully overhauled. This positive trend continues to this day. In fact, with the latest legislation, I wouldn't have to worry about the civil lawsuit on the gun, because new state law BARS any wrongful death lawsuits on any grounds by a perp's survivors as long as the shooting was ruled justifiable. So I can in fact, safely carry my 1911's but I choose not to do that.

    There are tons of reasons for leaving an area where you've made your home for a lifetime. For my family, it will be retirement and a desire to move to a different climate. Also the need to be near children and grandchildren (as grandkids arrive) these things are important as you age. I live in a very nice suburb of Miami as I have nearly all my life (except for college and the military). Very low crime rate in my area, which is less than I can say of this area in general. Yet crime rate and guns are not (to me) reasons in and of themselves to change your entire life.

    Yes it has been a valid "affirmative defense" argument to state that one carries the same weapons and ammo as local law enforcement. In MY case that would NOT be 1911's. It would be Sigs or Glocks or H&K USP's with the LEM module. Might be DAO Berettas. So if 1911's are standard in your area by all means go for it. But be ready for a civilian lawsuit on the gun and not the justifiable circumstances. Mas Ayoob has given several examples of such lawsuits (in his books and magazine columns) where he was a paid expert witness for the defense, so I know it has happened.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  8. #37
    Member Array RobL's Avatar
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    Mas teaches it in classes too. In fact "Live in a Free Place" is his quote.
    I see no real disagreement other than life style choices. Again to each his own.Living in a free place in not 'just about guns" It is about one's own prioroties.
    Yep, civil suits will happen no matter what you are doing with what ever type of pistol. We have a case here in AK, in which two sleazoids were robbing a church and were slain when they rushed the Pastor. He was armed with a 4" M 29 BTW. They were both multiple felons caught redhanded, the Patsor was exonorated BUT the family of one of the deceaced felons is still trying to sue him.
    One would hope that is is dismissed as with out merit, but there may be money to be made so it will probably drag on.
    The immportant thing is the victem of the crime successully defended himself and is here to continue on.
    Take Care,
    Rob
    Last edited by RobL; November 26th, 2005 at 03:51 PM.
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  9. #38
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    That's where legislation as was recently enacted here in Florida is the key. The law says that you don't HAVE to retreat if attacked on the street....and it further bars all lawsuits brought by perp or his estate if the shoot is held to be valid. Also it prevents an antigun prosecutor from bringing "charges" even if they know it'll be thrown out of court because he or she wants to make a "name" for themselves as an antigun politician. That's the kind of legislation that should be passed nationwide. For all our sakes!
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  10. #39
    Member Array RobL's Avatar
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    amen to that.
    simplyrugged.com

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    “Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory there is no survival.”
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