Thinking of a change in the lineup.....

This is a discussion on Thinking of a change in the lineup..... within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have 2 Kimber Pro-Carry models, a standard Pro with the aluminum frame and a Pro TLE with steel frame and night sights. The standard ...

Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Thinking of a change in the lineup.....

  1. #1
    Member Array jonesy_26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    SE MI
    Posts
    325

    Thinking of a change in the lineup.....

    I have 2 Kimber Pro-Carry models, a standard Pro with the aluminum frame and a Pro TLE with steel frame and night sights. The standard Pro I have been using as my daily carry gun and the TLE has pretty much been in the safe although I rotate the 2 guns on my range trips. While the 4" Kimbers are great carry guns, sometimes I wish I had something a bit smaller.

    I have been contemplating trading my standard Pro for a Kahr P45 or a Colt New Agent. The Kahrs are very slim and the grip is fantastic, the only thing that makes me hesitate is the lack of the manual safety with the DAO trigger. I would want to carry with a round in the chamber. With the little Colt, all the controls are the same but my pinky is halfway off the bottom of the grip and it doesn't have a beaver tail grip safety (why they do this I don't undertstand). I've handled both, as well as some of the other mini-1911's like the EMP and the Ultra, but the Kahr P45 and the Colt New Agent are what's under consideration.

    Your thoughts?

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    JD
    JD is online now
    Administrator
    Array JD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    19,198
    Thousands upon thousands of people carry DAO automatics without external safeties, Glock, HK, SIG, Kahr, S&W etc, etc. all with one in the chamber.

    As long as the trigger is not manipulated in manner that would cause the gun to fire, it won't.

    Smaller is fine, you can get that in any 3" 1911, may I ask why the New Agent is so appealing? There are plenty other 3" 1911s to choose from. Personally I find the Colts a little too edgy.

    A Kahr 45 would make a nice small carry gun, especially if we're talking about a PM45, I would also recommend the G36 if you're looking at single stack poly framed guns.

    I think you'll get better answers if you tell us why you're considering the P45 & New Agent.

    Without knowing more, although I'm a 1911 fan, I'd have to go with the Kahr.

  4. #3
    Distinguished Member Array JerryM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    1,967
    I have a Kahr P9, and it is a great carry gun. The long trigger is much like a revolver, and is not unsafe.

    Regards,
    Jerry

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas
    Posts
    2,753
    My EDC is a Kimber Ultra CDP II, and for me, it's just about ideal. It's accurate, easily concealable, comfortable to carry and to shoot, and has been absolutely reliable. I use a Tucker Answer to carry IWB.

    There are occasional times when the only weapon I have is my pocket-carried BUG, a Kel-Tec P-3AT. I've given thought to the Kahr PM-9 or MK-9 as an alternative, as a step up from the .380, yet still light weight and controllable in a platform that's pretty small. If I'm going to go for a .45, I prefer to stay in the single-action 1911 form.

    At the end of the day, it's best if you can try a number of alternatives and find the one that suits you best.
    Cheers,
    Rod
    "We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array pogo2's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Southwest
    Posts
    3,149

    Defender has beavertail

    You seem to like the Colt New Agent but not its lack of a beavertail. The Colt Defender, which is very similar to the New Agent, does have a beavertail grip safety. I have a Defender and put a Wilson drop in beavertail on the gun, giving a higher hold than the stock Defender beavertail.

    You must have large hands if you can only get 2 fingers on the Officer's length 1911 grip. I can get all my fingers on my grip, probably with the help of a Wilson 7 round magazine which extends the grip length slightly. I also dehorned my Defender slide, as it was pretty sharp on the corners originally. But it has been a good reliable gun for me.

    Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the Peoples' Liberty's Teeth." - George Washington

  7. #6
    Member Array jonesy_26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    SE MI
    Posts
    325
    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    I think you'll get better answers if you tell us why you're considering the P45 & New Agent.
    Well, the P45 physically is a "in between" gun. Its smaller than the Kimber Pros, but a bit bigger than the 3" 1911's. I hadn't really noticed until I picked one up and compared side by side with the Ultra. It fits my hand really well. As for the New Agent, I like the no frills simplicity of it; trench sight, slim grips - it just screams carry gun. And while there have been limited reviews, almost al of them have been extremely positive compared to the mixed reviews of almost every other 3" 1911.

    Quote Originally Posted by pogo2 View Post
    You seem to like the Colt New Agent but not its lack of a beavertail. The Colt Defender, which is very similar to the New Agent, does have a beavertail grip safety. I have a Defender and put a Wilson drop in beavertail on the gun, giving a higher hold than the stock Defender beavertail.

    You must have large hands if you can only get 2 fingers on the Officer's length 1911 grip. I can get all my fingers on my grip, probably with the help of a Wilson 7 round magazine which extends the grip length slightly. I also dehorned my Defender slide, as it was pretty sharp on the corners originally. But it has been a good reliable gun for me.
    My last couple of trips to the shop there weren't any Defenders on hand, but I'll definately give them a look. I can get 2-1/2 fingers on the short frames; my pinky is the finger that's rolling off the bottom. Its on, but not all the way. So its a decent grip, but that's where I like the Kahr; its just a hair longer, and my pinly doesn't tend to roll off the bottom.

    Thanks for the input guys....

  8. #7
    Member Array hayley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Lexington, Ky.
    Posts
    345
    The New Agent was my 3rd 3" 1911, and I totally understand it's appeal as a carry gun.

  9. #8
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Coral Gables, FL
    Posts
    5,781
    I have owned two so called "micro" 45 cal 1911s by different manufacturers. Not one of them was combat reliable. Of course for me, that means that after a suitable break-in period I get 100% reliability as long as I do my job so as not to inject some sort of improper technique and thus contribute to a FTF or FTE. My first was an older ParaOrd P10. Miggy will probably remember this one. I let him shoot it at an IDPA match and it sure enough jammed on him too.

    I have to say that probably 99% of the more experienced members of the club strongly cautioned me against getting any 1911 with a barrel shorter than 4.25 inches. I didn't pay attention the first time.

    So I dumped it in favor of a Springfield Armory "micro" which proved itself to be a "Jam-A-Matic" from the very first round fired. I had Miggy and the other members of my club run me thru a course of fire after one of our matches. They were only looking at how I handled the gun to see if they could detect any techniques that might be problematic in the reliability factor. They found no such flaws. Although I'd not listened to the opinions of these shooting friends of mine on my first small 45, I sure listened after the second one went south on me. It was really a heart breaker for me. That Springer felt soooooo good in my hand!

    After the second mistake I took that to a gun show and traded the POS jamamatic for a wonderful slightly used Sig P245 that became my EDC for years and years, only recently replaced by my H&K P30 as I began to shift from carrying the 45 to the 9. Went out to dinner with the wife last night and just for old times sake carried the P245. Felt fine if a little bit heavier than my P30. Yet I felt well armed and fully capable with any of my carry guns at any time.

    In the last few years of his life I exchanged a number of letters with the great Jeff Cooper on exactly this subject. He was of the opinion that when the slide on a 1911 shrinks below 4.25 inches, the design becomes inherently unreliable. We went back and forth for several rotations. Finally he made it one of his issues in the column he wrote for Guns & Ammo. He must have been getting similar reports from others because he mentions multiple reports from around the country. He said he personally did not own one and based on these reports would not have one himself unless given it as a gift.

    One thing, I'm quantifying the guns I owned and they alone. If you have a micro that has been 100% reliable then more power to you. YMMV as they say.

    I know one thing for sure, I'll NEVER own another sub 4.25 inch 1911. The Sig P245 has a 3.9 inch barrel, but that's a different design.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 15
    Last Post: February 16th, 2011, 11:50 AM
  2. New addition to my pocket lineup
    By gottabkiddin in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: February 28th, 2010, 07:13 PM
  3. Added an XD to my lineup
    By NYcarry in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: July 8th, 2009, 02:46 PM
  4. My developing concealed lineup.
    By Wasabi in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: December 14th, 2007, 04:53 PM
  5. SHTF Kit lineup?
    By eagle5 in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: March 2nd, 2007, 01:18 AM

Search tags for this page

1911 short beavertail
,

1911 short beavertail defender

,
beavertail for kahr
,
colt 1911 safeties
,

colt cal..25

,

colt defender alternate grips

,

colt defender slide

,

colt defender slide length

,
colt dehorning
,
colt new agent beavertail
,
colt new agent beavertail grip safety
,

colt new agent drop in beavertail

,

colt new agent jamamatic?

,

dehorned emp

,

new agent wilson drop-in beavertail

Click on a term to search for related topics.