September 1st, 2008 12:06 AM
well, to digress for a moment...one of the reasons guns are better than women is that you can swap a 44 for a 22 without getting in trouble
Originally Posted by exactlymypoint
"Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina
If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.
September 1st, 2008 12:07 AM
Gonzo: Maybe because its late, but I got a chuckle out of that!
Originally Posted by TheGreatGonzo
It seems about one a month or so at one of the local area shops I drop in at, there's always someone with a story along the same lines. Its always good for a smirk to see what some people will believe.
September 1st, 2008 12:10 AM
I routinely carry both calibers. Either one is fine. For me it is a question of which gun fits what I am wearing that day. If I am carrying a high cap I usually only carry one reload, if it is one of my single stackers, at least two. One rare occasions I will run out with a high cap and not bother with a reload, but usually that is just out to the mailbox. I never take a singe stacker without a reload.
Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis
September 1st, 2008 12:25 AM
I prefer .45 and carry it when I can. When I carry my Kahr MK9 it's because of it's size.
I think *most* people choose 9 over 45 because of either size or capacity.
"When among wild beasts, if they menace you, be a wild beast."
September 1st, 2008 12:45 AM
1943 - 2009
When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
And go to your God like a soldier.
September 1st, 2008 12:57 AM
I thoroughly enjoy shooting .45's and carrying them is not a real problem. However, my EDC is a XD 9sc. It conceals well and I can afford to shoot a whole lot more.
There is no such thing as a guaranteed one-shot-one-kill unless you are a trained sniper. That goes for handguns and rifles. Anyone who has seen real combat knows that a lot of folks get shot multiple times and don't always go down right away. And they are shooting heavier stuff than ccw weapons.
Both a .45 and 9mm with get the job done if you do your part and practice, practice, practice.
September 1st, 2008 02:20 AM
Ooooohhh...I've won a major award! It's marked "Fragile"...must be from Italy!
Originally Posted by Captain Crunch
Thanks Captain Crunch! I humbly accept this major award and hereby promise to remain on topic. LOL!
September 1st, 2008 02:24 AM
September 1st, 2008 02:25 AM
If there were a DC prize for best post of the year, I would nominate this one.
Originally Posted by TheGreatGonzo
This entire thread has been the funniest thing I have seen in a long time. My monitor is being cleaned even as I type.
Preparing for the Zombie Apocalypse or Rapture....whichever comes first.
September 1st, 2008 02:37 AM
I own a few nice .45s and several nice 9mm pistols. I tend to carry the 9mm for two primary reasons. They tend to be lighter and more comfortable to wear and since developing serious arthritis the recoil is far easier to tolerate. My HK P7PSP and Kahr PM9 happen to be my favorites. When I carried a .45ACP it was either the HK USP Compact, or my Colt 1991A1 Compact. I prefer the HK over my Colt. I still own all my .45s, I just don't shoot them near as much as I used to. It is getting expensive for .45.
September 1st, 2008 02:49 AM
Talking SD, and not vs bear (vampires, robots, etc) (jk)
It can be argued, using the right type of round, and considering most non-LE (and vast majority LE) SD situations, the 9mm +P hp is just as lethal, in general +5 more rounds, easier follow up shot, and tends to have an easier to hold grip for most.
Last edited by Thanis; September 1st, 2008 at 04:05 AM.
September 1st, 2008 02:48 PM
Any gun anyday is better than no gun anyday, but you all knew that. I carry either and it's all the same to me. As far as the number of rounds, I carry two magazines of 13 in .45 plus the one 13+1 in the gun. Thats 39 rounds on me in .45, I thing thats good enough.
September 1st, 2008 03:27 PM
The Armed Citizen – A Five Year Analysis
OVERVIEW OF SURVEY
For the period 1997 - 2001, reports from "The Armed Citizen" column of the NRA Journals were collected. There were 482 incidents available for inclusion in the analysis. All involved the use of firearms by private citizens in self defense or defense of others. No law enforcement related incidents were included. The database is self-selecting in that no non-positive outcomes were reported in the column.
As might be expected, the majority of incidents (52%) took place in the home. Next most common locale (32%) was in a business. Incidents took place in public places in 9% of reports and 7% occurred in or around vehicles.
The most common initial crimes were armed robbery (32%), home invasion (30%), and burglary (18%).
Overall, shots were fired by the defender in 72% of incidents. The average and median number of shots fired was 2. When more than 2 shots were fired, it generally appeared that the defender's initial response was to fire until empty. It appears that revolver shooters are more likely to empty their guns than autoloader shooters. At least one assailant was killed in 34% of all incidents. At least one assailant was wounded in an additional 29% of all incidents. Of the incidents where shots are fired by a defender, at least one assailant is killed in 53% of those incidents.
Handguns were used in 78% of incidents while long guns were used in 13%; in the balance the type of firearm was not reported. The most common size of handgun was the .35 caliber family (.38, .357, 9mm) at 61%, with most .38s apparently being of the 5 shot variety. Mouseguns (.380s and below) were at 23%, and .40 caliber and up at 15%.
The range of most incidents appears to be short but in excess of touching distance. It appears that most defenders will make the shoot decision shortly before the criminal comes within arm's length. Defenders frequently communicate with their attackers before shooting.
The firearm was carried on the body of the defender in only 20% of incidents. In 80% of cases, the firearm was obtained from a place of storage, frequently in another room.
Reloading was required in only 3 incidents. One of those involved killing an escaped lion with a .32 caliber revolver, which was eventually successful after 13 shots.
Multiple conspirators were involved in 36% of the incidents. However, there were no apparent cases of getaway drivers or lookouts acting as reinforcements for the criminal actor(s) once shooting starts. At the sound of gunfire, immediate flight was the most common response for drivers and lookouts.
When multiple conspirators were involved, the first tier was a two man action team. If another member was available, he was usually the driver of the getaway car and remained in the car. If a fourth conspirator was involved, he was stationed immediately outside the target location as a lookout for the police or other possible intervening parties. The outside conspirators do not generally appear to be armed. It does appear that the trend over the period has increased from one weapon in the action team to two weapons.
The largest group of violent criminal actors was 7, a group that committed serial home invasions in Rochester NY. An alert and prepared homeowner, who saw them invade an adjacent home, accessed his shotgun, and dispatched them (2 killed and 1 seriously wounded) when they broke in his door.
Incidents rarely occurred in reaction time (i.e., ¼ second increments). Most commonly, criminals acted in a shark-like fashion, slowly circling and alerting their intended victims. The defender(s) then had time to access even weapons that were stored in other rooms and bring them to bear.
The most common responses of criminals upon being shot were to flee immediately or expire. With few exceptions, criminals ceased their advances immediately upon being shot. Even small caliber handguns displayed a significant degree of instant lethality (30 per cent immediate one shot kills) when employed at close range. Many criminal actors vocally expressed their fear of being shot when the defender displayed a weapon. Upon the criminals' flight, the "victims" frequently chased and captured or shot the criminals and held them for the authorities.
1) Even small caliber weapons are adequate to solve the vast majority of incidents requiring armed self-defense.
2) Mindset of the potential victim was far more important than the type of weapon used. All the victims were willing to fight their opponents in order to survive. Although not common, in some cases bridge weapons, such as pens, were used to gain time to access the firearm.
3) Frequently, the defenders were aware that something was amiss before the action started and then placed themselves in position to access their weapons. Awareness of the surroundings appears to be a key element of successful defense.
4) The defenders had some measure of familiarity with their firearms. Although perhaps not trained in the formal sense, they appear to be able to access a firearm and immediately put it into action. At least one defender learned from a previous experience and made the firearm more accessible for subsequent use.
5) Training or practice with a firearm should include a substantial amount of accessing the firearm from off body locations, such as drawers, underneath counters, etc.
6) This analysis does not present a view of the totality of armed self-defense in that non-positive outcomes were not available for inclusion in the database. The analysis may, however, be useful in helping to describe a methodology for successful armed self-defense. This methodology might be described as: 1. be aware, 2. be willing to fight, 3. have a weapon accessible, 4. be familiar enough with the weapon to employ it without fumbling, 5. when ready, communicate, both verbally and non-verbally, to the attacker that resistance will be given, and 6. if the attacker does not withdraw, counterattack without hesitation.
Location of Incident
In or around Vehicle 7%
Type of Location No Yes
Business 33% 72%
Home 25% 75%
Public 29% 71%
In or around Vehicle 35% 65%
Grand Total 28% 72%
Number of Shots Fired
Long Gun 13%
Type of Location No Yes
Business 69% 31%
Home 94% 6%
Public 49% 51%
In or around Vehicle 65% 35%
Overall 80% 20%
Type of Location NO YES
Business 76% 24%
Home 72% 28%
Public 62% 38%
Retail Business 52% 48%
In or Around Vehicle 49% 51%
Overall 64% 36%
September 1st, 2008 03:51 PM
Very good info Tubby, thank you.
The "stats" confirm my observations that I am usually well armed when I carry a Revolver. I do however carry more than one so that I can access a gun with either hand because I may have a hand busy doing something else when i need to draw a gun.
Right now I have a 6 Shooter on my strong hip and a 5 Shooter on my weak hip. I also have a 5 Shooter in my pocket.
September 1st, 2008 04:06 PM
One would do well to check out the writings of Evan Marshall on this subject as well. He documented many many cases where firearms were used on individuals, what caliber was used, where the shots landed, and the net outcome of the incident. It was very enlightening (I read much on this many years back).
Bottom line, there is no "magic bullet", and seemingly impossible wounds have at times been survived long enough to dispatch those who administered the wound, and in some cases even seek treatment.
Regards, T Bone.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety".
By targus in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
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