Newer shooters - safety reminder - Page 3

Newer shooters - safety reminder

This is a discussion on Newer shooters - safety reminder within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Re: Rule #1 and 2: Just back from the range (both Sat and Sun this weekend). I have made a conscious decision in regards to ...

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Thread: Newer shooters - safety reminder

  1. #31
    Member Array torontogunguy's Avatar
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    Re: Rule #1 and 2:
    Just back from the range (both Sat and Sun this weekend). I have made a conscious decision in regards to my concealed carry. First, I have decided to always carry with one in the chamber for speed to action which is critical in a defensive situation (action beats reaction). Secondly, I will only carry a handgun in a concealed manner that tends to point at ANYTHING I do not wish to destroy, that has at least a grip safety of some kind and preferable a grip safety and a thumb safety. This means that carrying Glocks concealed is pretty much out for me as they are, with one in the chamber, ready to go at all times, being cocked in order to load the chamber. So, the choice is narrowed considerably: H&K P7 series "squeeze cockers", 1911 series and variants with grip safeties, etc. And last but not least, Glocks that have had either a grip safety or a thumb safety aftermarket installed by a gunsmith. I have a huge problem carrying a Glock or anything else without an ACTIVE safety mechanism that has ANY CHANCE of pointing towards something that I do not wish to kill or maim, including myself. Having carried Glocks concealed over the past couple of months I just am not comfy with the idea, despite the high quality of the holsters being used. All it takes is a piece of clothing getting caught in the trigger while tucking in, sitting down or whatever to have the gun discharge at either my rear end (a large target I am told) or at my femoral artery and family jewels, neither of which I am prepared to spend time having repaired. So, personally, I have chosen the H&K P7M8 squeeze cocker for personal concealed carry, with an alternate concealed carry of any 1911 variant that offers a grip safety at least and double action (I dislike carrying cocked and locked). Safety MUST always be first. But one must always be mindful that you are likely to be REACTING to a given action in drawing and using you handgun... therefore speed to first shot and subsequent shots is essential. Hence my choice of the HK P7M8 squeeze cocker. In fact, since they are being 'discontinued' we have picked up TWO of them to ensure that we have parts and an operating handgun at all times. In those situations where we are able to carry concealed a larger, heavier handgun, we have chosen reliable 1911's in 'commander' size where possible, although even full size is fine for us with the proper cover garments. The HK P7M8 or P7M13 is dead accurate, reliable and easily concealed, even in a pocket holster. The Kimber Custom II and TLEII/RLII are our alternatives as we also use them for home protection and for IPSC/IDPA/PPC, etc.. competitively. For fun.

    REMEMBER - safety first.
    REMEMBER - action beats reaction

    And last but not least, we have made a conscious decision to get as much training under our belts as possible in order to avoid situations where we will need to use lethal force; but should we need to use lethal force we are well trained and well praticed for same. THIS is as important as the rules above. Be prepared. And know what you are doing. Someone once said to me that carrying a handgun no more prepares one for self defence than carrying a garden hose prepares one to be a firefighter. YOU NEED TRAINING and PRACTICE.

    Sorry to babble on and chew up bandwidth but I am very adimant in my demands on myself and believe that all defensivecarry folk should demand the same of themselves. I am prepared to use lethal force in defense of my life or the lives of loved ones; but I am also prepared and practiced in avoiding such situations where possible.

    Thank you for the opportunity to express my feelings on this matter and thanks for reminding us of the essentials.


  2. #32
    Member Array dhberry's Avatar
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    Good morning, P95carry: as a former Firearms Instructor and Weapons Officer, I could not agree with you more on reiterating safety rules, even to the point of "irritating the troops." (They'll get over it) I will tell you this: I came as close or closer to getting blown away while on the firing range, surrounded by those who were my fellow Officers, than I ever experienced while on my beat, or "humpin the boonies." Setting aside personel and/or familial safety, this is an issue which is CRITICAL to maintaining the good will of those politicians and the public who are, so far, the friends of those of us who choose to even own a firearm, let alone CCW. God bless you and yours. "Illegitimum Non Carborundum" - Don't let the ******** grind you down!

  3. #33
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    Good morning, P95carry:
    And good morning and welcome to you Sir

    Indeed, at my advanced age I have reached the point where I become ever more fastidious over safety - including keeping the message flowing to others when I can.

    I realized many years ago that after decades of shooting I perhaps was heading towards complacency - a dangerous thing. I therefore took a few steps back and reappraised safety - such that these days I in a sense, treat my guns with immense respect and even a tinge of fear!! Only because I need to maintain that sharpness - almost as a newbie might - so as to follow the drill to the letter every time.

    Casual - is not the way to go.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  4. #34
    New Member Array morg's Avatar
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    Thanks! Always good to have those safety rules in your face, as it were. I'm always rechecking myself in the way I handle my weapons. I've had some "duh" moments, which have thankfully not resulted in any damage or death. That being said, I try to live rules like that everytime I even think of going near a gun. Whenever I feel silly being overly cautious, I try to remind myself that it beats being dead or worse.

    Last time I was cleaning, I caught myself checking the chamber after reassembly to make sure it was unloaded. I can only hope I stay that way.

  5. #35
    Member Array johnstuf's Avatar
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    An excellent "duh" moment morg. It never hurts to check and recheck. Better safe than sorry!

    Safe and sane shooting everyone,

    johnstuf

  6. #36
    Member Array mojave_pistolero's Avatar
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    I will never get sick nor tired of reviewing Gun safety rules!

  7. #37
    VIP Member Array JonInNY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojave_pistolero View Post
    I will never get sick nor tired of reviewing Gun safety rules!
    Me neither! And they should be repeated every morning with breakfast!
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch; Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
    -- Benjamin Franklin

  8. #38
    Member Array billfromtx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bud White View Post
    Always good to have a reminder
    Yessir it is...

    Rule #2 is the most important...
    USMC 1984-1992
    To err is human.
    To forgive is divine.
    Neither of which is Marine Corps policy.

    "It's all about shot placement."- David (Slayer of Goliath)

  9. #39
    New Member Array djhiram's Avatar
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    Ladies & Gentlemen:

    PLEASE follow these rules and make it your PRIORITY to teach EVERYONE who is old enough in your homes about the proper loading and unloading of a firearm. To this day, I wear a wristband that reminds me of how a second of negligence can turn into a lifetime of pain. The night was August 18th, 2006. My younger brother and his friends were all gathering at a friends house getting ready to head out for the night. My brother's friend Eric lived there with his mom and step father. Eric owned several handguns and as the son of a local police officer, was "well trained" on proper firearm safety. Anyway, while waiting for the last member of the group to get there, they were all messing around with Eric's Glock G27. My brother, responsibly took the gun from them and properly unloaded it and refused to hand it back to them stating "Guns aren't toys."

    Apparently Eric's gun cabinet was open OR someone opened it. I can't be sure what was the case because I wasn't there. They were messing around with another one of Eric's guns (A Sig P229 I've been told). My brother tells me that he was at the computer checking some e-mails when all of a sudden he hears "click" right next to his ear. When he turns, he has a gun in his face.

    He is upset, tells all his friends once again that guns aren't toys and leaves the room. It was a decision that ultimately may have saved his life. My brother goes to open the front door of the house for the last member of the group who was arriving and hears a gun go off. He rushes back into the room to see one of his best friends laying on the floor shot in the head. Alex didn't make it.

    What drives me NUTS about this whole thing is that I had taken the whole group shooting with me less then 2 months prior to this and had drilled in them the rules of proper gun safety. I didn't let them even touch a firearm before they could recite the rules back to me and demonstrated (with an empty magazine) that they knew how to load and unload a firearm. I also made sure they understood that if they rack the slide then they are loading a round in the chamber and hence they now have a live round and that if they pull the trigger the GUN WILL GO OFF!

    Thank you once again for reminding us all of the proper rules for gun safety. I, for one will not be "tired of hearing it." Ladies and gentlemen PLEASE put safety above all and PLEASE teach as many people as you can the rules. It may save a life and save you from the pain and guilt that I have had to go through.

    Rest In Peace Alex Fernandez - 03/27/1985 - 08/18/2006


  10. #40
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    P95 thank you so much. Number one and two are what I have preached to my two sons. This an excellant reminder.

  11. #41
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    djhiram,

    Thank you for posting and welcome to the board. A very salutary tale you tell - which proves I guess that however much we try to train others and instill safety - there will sadly always (seemingly) be the few who either have very poor memory skills or - simply ignore such sensibilities.

    I started this thread ages ago - every now and again it gets a comment so I feel vindicated. Some folks seem to roll eyes when safety is mentioned as if they are saying - "What do you think I am? Ignorant?" Well yes sometimes folks are and refuse to concede that they (even 'they') can learn and be safer.

    Matdicdad - no thanks needed - just pleased to see this being taken heed of.

    I as ever for those who know me, impress rule #2 the heaviest - which is not to say all should not be implemented fully but - out of all the tragedies I have read or heard about, lack of observance of rule #2 was in the end the killer.

    It's logical IMO - if a stray bullet ends up not causing harm then everyone lives to go home and enjoy another day - even if egg is smeared on someone's face! Egg washes off!

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I came back to this having noticed in the 2 1/2 years this thread has been around - over 6,000 views!!! That pleases me greatly as - maybe I can even gain some comfort in thinking that out of that large number, just perhaps, an odd accident or two was avoided - like to think so.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  12. #42
    Member Array calmp9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruces45 View Post
    I personaly believe that Rule #1 is the most important. ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS check the chamber, even if you just did 2 min ago, check it again before handing to someone (then have them check it too) or before loading into your vehical, or storage. This is a VERY important rule in Firearms.
    Well, I believe that Rule #2 is the most important. If that gun is pointed in a safe direction, nothing will happen if people forget rules #1, 3 and 4.

  13. #43
    VIP Member Array JonInNY's Avatar
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    You can never repeat those too often. And you are right, if you can only remember one of them, go with #2 (and the 2nd part of #4). Too often we read about people that needlessly get hurt or worse from someone that didn't know "they were there."
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch; Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
    -- Benjamin Franklin

  14. #44
    Member Array tremor's Avatar
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    thanks for the reminder - this must incorporated and not just remembered

  15. #45
    Member Array bcbrown2's Avatar
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    Keep Your Finger Off the Trigger...

    I just went through both Basic and Intermediate CCW courses this weekend and we had a brief discussion of the Four Rules of Firearms Safety. A few of us had agreed that keeping the weapon pointed in a safe direction at all times is probably the most important rule when our instructor reminded us of something which we all agreed with -- the most important safety rule is to keep your finger (and anything else) out of the trigger well until:

    1. You're on target
    2. You're ready to fire
    3. You intend to fire on and destroy your target

    ...the designation between 2. and 3. being subtle, but important. Flagging the muzzle across unintended people/places/things downrange itself won't result in a negligent discharge but most/all NDs happen when a finger presses the trigger when it wasn't supposed to happen.

    Just thought I'd share... not trying to start an argument. All the rules are extremely important and I'm glad to see the folks on here posting them at the top of the forum.

    Cheers!!

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