Newer shooters - safety reminder

This is a discussion on Newer shooters - safety reminder within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Watched a news clip once where a female reporter was being instructed in shooting a glock on a police range and after shooting she's holding ...

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Thread: Newer shooters - safety reminder

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Watched a news clip once where a female reporter was being instructed in shooting a glock on a police range and after shooting she's holding the gun and starts waving it around while she's talking,you shoulda seen the range instructors face as he's trying to grab her arm and keep the weapon pointed in a safe direction while he points out how unsafe she is handling the gun
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  3. #47
    New Member Array 2 Swords's Avatar
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    I recently learned that a young man I know shot himself in the thigh while getting into his car. He pulled the door closed with his left hand, and his right hand also closed, but on the trigger of the loaded pistol he was holding. He isn't stupid, just acted like it that day. He was in serious condition for a while, but is recovering. I tell my shop students that all the safety rules I make them learn in the woodshop are totally unnecessary unless something goes wrong!

  4. #48
    New Member Array Anon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruces45 View Post
    I personaly believe that Rule #1 is the most important....
    I personally believe rule #1 is not a rule, but a (largely incorrect) statement.

    I'm sure Jeff spent quite a bit of time and thought, boiling the rules down, and he placed that rule at number one for a reason. That said, the "rule" doesn't make sense, and should never have been adopted.

    The rule (as written by Jeff Cooper, and adopteed by many as "the firest rule of gun safety") is:

    All guns are always loaded.

    First, let's get into how this is not a rule. For a sentence to be a rule, it must give direction for what actions are to be taken or avoided.

    This "rule" is no more a rule (and no more useful) than the statement "All guns are capable of firing projectiles that can cause harm".

    Now for the inaccuracy. Since most guns are currently NOT loaded, and since it is possible to render any gun unloaded, the "rule" is absolutley false, and becomes something that is easily dismissed or ignored.

    I'm sure Col. Cooper pondered the much more sensible "Treat all guns as if they are loaded", and decided that this rule did not meet his criteria. However, "Treat all guns as if they are loaded" is at least a rule, as it has the ability to direct action.

    I'm not arguing that having the correct safety mindset at all times around guns is wrong, I'm just pointing out that "Rule 1" is poorly conceived. So poorly, in fact, that when P95Carry started this thread, he took the time to re-write Cooper's original rule #1 (but still ended up with an incorrect statement, and not a hard-and-fast "rule").

  5. #49
    Distinguished Member Array Anubis's Avatar
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    Anon, you have a point. The blanket statement "all guns are always loaded", if taken literally, is false. Colonel Cooper may have boiled it down to the shortest phrase to capture the essence of his thought just for mnemonic ease. (I actually do keep all of my pistols loaded, although usually one is holstered on me and the others are locked up.)

    One rule or 4, it's really a question of what one prefers for semantic content. If you are of the minimalist school, all gun safety rules could be reduced to 2 words: "don't err".

  6. #50
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    I too will in part accept the argument - altho it is in part semantics.

    If #1 is perhaps no longer called a rule but a ''way to go'' - I still find it more than adequate as something to remember - it is really in my book part of the ''don't assume (anything)" approach.

    The reason I personally regard #2 as the singular ''catch-all'' - is that if #1 has been casually ignored as it so often can be, then at least any discharge would be more egg on face than hole in body!!
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  7. #51
    Distinguished Member Array Rcher's Avatar
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    Not to get off topic, but ...

    I think we should have a forum section for "Firearm Safety" or "Firearm Basics". I think a section devoted to either would benefit the membership. The discussions could include safety, maintenance and basic gun handling.

    Being a certified safety instructor for over 30 years, I would be willing to contribute my experience(s). Maybe I should post this in the Forum Feedback section?
    "Government is not the solution to our problem; government IS the problem". - Ronald Reagan 1981

  8. #52
    Member Array Reicher's Avatar
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    Safety First!!
    over this holiday weekend, my sister and her husband came up to visit with their newborn. we went out quading and shooting for a day. after quading, i set up the targets and the table. i laid out all the guns, about 8, revolvers open, and autos open. when i was done and they came to the range, i explained why the guns where this way, so we can see the are empty. and i also explained basic gun safety. about half way through our session, the brother in law came back from shooting the walther p22, magazine in hand and chamber open. he began to talk and wave the gun around talking with his hands. i reacted quickly, and he said he was very sorry.
    the next day we talked about this and he could not believe he did this, since he is a gun owner as well. but i also found out that he has not even shot his gun in about 8 years.

    As Rcher stated, a gun safety section would be great. the more you train the more you know.
    "Manners are good when one may have to back up his actions with his life" Robert Heinlein"

  9. #53
    Member Array enviroman22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rcher View Post
    Not to get off topic, but ...I think we should have a forum section for "Firearm Safety" or "Firearm Basics". I think a section devoted to either would benefit the membership. The discussions could include safety, maintenance and basic gun handling.
    I think this is an extremely excellent idea!

    I was going to add my .02 that a handgun should never be drawn unless you are ready to fire. I saw some talk about using it to threaten a burglar and I was trained not to threaten with it. It compromises the secure handling of the weapon (it could be taken from you if you aren't absolutely ready to use it) and can alter the negotiations considerably in "tone". Pull when ready to fire, and never otherwise was what I was taught.

    Things like this are important.

  10. #54
    Member Array Mr 40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gddyup View Post
    There should also be a rule #5 added to the list IMHO...

    Rule #5 - ALWAYS know where your gun is! YOU are the one who is legallay and morally responsible for it!
    I wouldnt have commented if not for this beautiful addition, specially in todays wonderfully lawyered world.

    I agree with all 5 100%

    But i must add an obvious #6: GUNS AND ALCOHOL DO NOT MIX
    Either you're part of the problem or you're part of the solution or you're just part of the landscape.

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  11. #55
    Member Array Vipertwo's Avatar
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    This is a great thread. Mainly because we all, by nature, have to prove to ourselves once in a while that we too are mearly human. And ALL humans make mistakes sometimes.

  12. #56
    Member Array Horseman04's Avatar
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    Post

    This has been a superb and educational discussion. Particularly for someone who is relatively new to handguns such as myself. As a teacher though, I like to summarize conclusions into neat charts that can be turned into posters. How about this as a proposal:

    ************************************************** ****
    GUN SAFETY RULES
    ************************************************** ****

    Rule #1 - Treat all guns as if they were loaded -- even if you just unloaded one.
    ("The gun is always loaded, even when it's not.")

    Rule #2 - NEVER POINT A GUN AT ANYTHING YOU DO NOT WISH TO DESTROY!
    (Most important rule of gun safety.)

    Rule #3 - Keep finger off trigger until actually intending to shoot.

    Rule #4 - Know your target - and what is beyond.

    Rule #5 - ALWAYS know where your gun is. YOU are the one who is
    legally and morally responsible for it.

    Rule #6 - GUNS AND ALCOHOL DO NOT MIX.

    ************************************************** ****
    ....a politically incorrect right-wing fiscally-conservative libertarian NRA card-carrying gun-toting self-sufficient gainfully-employed Bible-believing church-going fundamentalist evangelical Christian. Perhaps you should avoid my company. I might contaminate you.

  13. #57
    Member Array eldorado's Avatar
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    Chris,
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Rule #1 - A gun is loaded - always. (even if just checked clear!)

    Rule #2 - NEVER point a gun at anything you do not wish to DESTROY

    Rule #3 - Keep finger off trigger until actually intending to shoot.

    Rule #4 - Know your target - and what is beyond.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    RULES to live by

    Thanks for the refresher
    Moto

  14. #58
    Member Array brobar's Avatar
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    California's HSC booklet looks to have some good info in it for beginners.

    Sorry if this has already been posted:
    PDF LINK


    Do most (or other) states require an HSC before being able to purchase? I don't want to get into a California sucks and here is why flame... just curious if other states require a demonstration of minimal core competency before purchasing a handgun?

  15. #59
    New Member Array theprofessor's Avatar
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    Another safety protocol...

    When not in use...keep the gun holstered. This is especially true for new guns...which we all just want to handle and admire. (It's like petting a kitty cat.) That's usually when accidents happen.

    I tend to use the holster as another line of safety besides the "Four Rules". I only take it out of the holster when firing it or cleaning it. I try to avoid as much administrative handling as possible.

  16. #60
    Member Array MSGTLEGO's Avatar
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    Safety At The Range

    This was a great reminder! Safety is always my number one concern at the ranges especially with all the new firearm owners in the last 4 months. I been to the range twice in the last week and what I see scares me, actually had a guy go down range to set up a spinner target while people where shooting, them when everyone address this with the guy he didnot think it was a big deal because he was on one of the far outside lanes. The second issue I would like to address are the number of unsupervised children at the ranges both off and on the firing line. My little girl (11 yrs old) is always supervised and can tell you my (USMC) safety rules as well as weapon conditions & commands. Below is what I have taught my kids & wife before heading to the range, and WE ALL ENJOY THE RANGE:

    SAFETY RULES:

    1. Treat every weapon is loaded

    2. Never point a weapon anything you do not intent to shoot

    3. Keep finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire

    4. Keep weapon safe until you intend to fire.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    CONDITION CODES

    a. A weapon’s readiness/safety status is described by one of four conditions.

    The steps in the loading and unloading process take the weapon through specific conditions which indicate the weapon’s readiness for live fire.

    - CONDITION 1. To place a weapon in condition 1, a round must be in position to be fired (magazine inserted) and the safety must be on.

    - CONDITION 2. To place a weapon in condition 2, a round must be in position to be fired, the weapon’s action must be closed, and the hammer must be forward. (This condition only applies to weapons that have external hammers).

    - CONDITION 3. To place a weapon in condition 3, ammunition is in position to be chambered (magazine inserted), the chamber is empty, the action is closed, and the safety is on.

    - CONDITION 4. To place a weapon in condition 4, all ammunition is removed (magazine removed) , the chamber is empty, the action is closed, and the safety is on.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    COMMANDS:

    - "Unload"
    - "Load"
    - "Make Ready"
    - "Fire"
    - "I Unload and show clear"

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I also believe that all shooters (wifes, kids, ETC) should know how to:

    - Fieldstrip and reassemble procedures for the weapons you are firing.

    - Discuss the immediate action to clear a stoppage

    - Discuss load and unload ammunition procedures


    - Discuss SIX BASIC FUNDAMENTALS OF HANDGUN SHOOTING:

    The six basic fundamentals of handgun shooting are:

    1. Stance (Weaver Stance, Isosceles Stance)
    2. Grip/Locked Wrist
    3. Sight Alignment / Sight Picture
    4. Breath Control
    5. Trigger Control
    6. Follow Through


    I would also recommend if you have little children have them watch:

    "Learn Gun Safety With Eddie Eagle"

    I hope this is helpful, others will be annoyed!

    BLUF: Is have fun enjoy the RANGE but be SAFE!


    R/S Lego

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