Moved to Panama. "Robbed" twice. Need gun.

This is a discussion on Moved to Panama. "Robbed" twice. Need gun. within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Siafu Panama is pretty liberal about private gun ownership. I believe only full-auto requires a special permit. Civilians are even lawfully allowed ...

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Thread: Moved to Panama. "Robbed" twice. Need gun.

  1. #46
    New Member Array KeyserSoze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siafu View Post
    Panama is pretty liberal about private gun ownership. I believe only full-auto requires a special permit. Civilians are even lawfully allowed to have sawed off shotguns. I would carry a combat-class handgun (most likely a Glock for ease of parts and availability) with a couple hi-cap mags on my person at all times. In the car I would get the DeSantis "Kingston" holster that hooks on the front of the drivers seat for fast access in a carjacking situation. I would also keep a few 30 round mags in the car as well as the sawed-off with some 3" Mag #1 Buck. Panama is beautiful but it is also pretty crazy so stay sharp.
    I'm thinking about a taser, instead of a gun.

    Thoughts, anyone?

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  3. #47
    Member Array Slimz13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeyserSoze View Post
    Currently I'm renting a condo, has extremely tight security. Won't let anyone in unless they recognise them. And they have about 7 security guards, first of all they'd need to get past the gate (only entrance)... Then they'd need to be buzzed into my building.

    Basically... nothing to worry about there.

    I'm gonna go get a Baton tomorrow, and will take a look at the glocks while I'm there.
    Still, if corruption is as prevalent there as you say, I would take a few measures that don't depend on someone else's integrity. Nothing spectacular.

    Quote Originally Posted by DblTap View Post
    his cousin in the local PD and his other cousin who is (was) your condo security now own everything you once did.
    My point exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by KeyserSoze View Post
    I'm thinking about a taser, instead of a gun.

    Thoughts, anyone?
    Been there, done that. It sounds appealing, but its really not worth it, both in terms of depending on it with your life, and the financial investment. ESPECIALLY because you already know you'll likely be facing multiple assailants. Tasers really only come into thier own in a team setting where your partner can use his handcuffs before the taser stops, and his 9mm if the taser fails.
    Watch this video demonstrating how temporary a taser's effects are under ideal conditions
    And this one showing that a taser CAN be overcome
    We are only as vulnerable as we are naive.

  4. #48
    Member Array dmorris68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeyserSoze View Post
    I'm thinking about a taser, instead of a gun.

    Thoughts, anyone?
    If you're talking a "real" Taser (as in those that fire electrode darts) versus a contact "stun gun," then my concern would be that you mentioned gangs. A Taser is a single-shot solution, not really conducive to quick reloads even if you had a spare cartridge, and while the guy you hit (assuming you hit him) is doing the Electric Boogaloo, his buddies are likely to be jumping you. The end result might be even worse for you, unless you have a backup weapon of some type (like the aforementioned baton) and -- most importantly -- the training to properly use it.
    David

    Kimber Pro CDP II Colt Combat Commander Glock 26 GNS Ruger Mark III 22/45 Kahr CW9 (sold)

  5. #49
    New Member Array KeyserSoze's Avatar
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    ok, lol, tasers out then. Pepper spray? None lethal, and subdues them for 45 minutes. real easy to carry, better than a baton?

  6. #50
    Member Array Slimz13's Avatar
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    Subdues? No. Pepper spray cannot subdue anyone to my knowledge.
    Distract may be a better word. You average punk will lose interest in mugging you when his face "catches fire". A really determined person can overcome the pain relatively easily tho.. but yes, i would say pepper spray would be a good thing to have until your pistol arrives. It would probably also draw less attention than a baton, but it would not be as quite as effective IMO.
    We are only as vulnerable as we are naive.

  7. #51
    Member Array GT3326's Avatar
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    When i was in the army i had a friend from the waterfront area of ny. He had problems with gangs and hide a baseball bat every so often along his path. Said he had pulled one out a couple of times and it solved the problem. Just another option!

  8. #52
    Senior Member Array Sergeant Mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomEgun View Post
    Last time I was there had a M16 4 30rd mags and 2 frags and still didnt feel secure if I was you id get the heck out or move toward the US Army base Near Panama City think its FT.David cant remember getting old. you are in the wild west. Police are absolutly corrupt . But at least in the Military community there will be some order and you wont have to worry about gangs.
    I believe you're thinking of Fort Clayton.

    .....and, as far as I know, the US no longer has any military installations in Panama. They were all turned over to the Panamanian government in 1999. (Thank you, Jimmy Carter...)

    I was deployed to Panama in 1990, and spent four months working with the brand spanking new "Fuerza Publica de Panama", which at that time consisted of about half-and-half former PDF troops and "shake and bake" volunteers who got a whopping 20 HOURS of training before being thrown to the wolves.

    The old guys were effective, but brutal. The new guys were kind and gentle, but ineffective. There were some notable exceptions, but since 18 years have passed, I'd imagine that those exceptions have been promoted off the street where they did some good....

    I actually liked Panama and, left to my own devices, would retire there. My wife, however, has different ideas......

    Anyway, my personal experience with Panamanian street criminals back then indicated that they had a MUCH lower level of aggressiveness than the average (even non-criminal) American, and shied away when aggressively confronted.

    With the original poster being a Brit, though, YMMV.....

    OC (pepper spray) CAN be effective. You just can't depend upon it to do the trick 100% of the time. Then again, the same can be said for any man-portable firearm....

  9. #53
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    Be gregarious. Get to know your local mid to high level police officer & white shirt. Also get chummy with military (Captain and above) as well as judges. Wine them and dine them. If you happen to have access to some places or events they don't, take them for a day of fun. If they have secretaries, treat the like royalty, give them small gifts, charm the undies out of them.

    Why? In case you get in trouble, you will have a network of people that will vouch and will defend you better than any lawyer... and it is cheaper in the long run.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
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  10. #54
    Distinguished Member Array Stetson's Avatar
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    I'll second the glock 26 as I have one.They are very easy to conceal with a holster and very comfortable to carry for hours on end.

  11. #55
    Senior Member Array Vaquero 45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miggy View Post
    Be gregarious. Get to know your local mid to high level police officer & white shirt. Also get chummy with military (Captain and above) as well as judges. Wine them and dine them. If you happen to have access to some places or events they don't, take them for a day of fun. If they have secretaries, treat the like royalty, give them small gifts, charm the undies out of them.

    Why? In case you get in trouble, you will have a network of people that will vouch and will defend you better than any lawyer... and it is cheaper in the long run.
    This is the best advice on this thread so far. In a corrupt society, being friends with the movers and shakers matters more than any legal technicality regarding defensive scenarios. It ain't what's written in the law that matters....it's the application of said law by the people in charge of such things that will determine what happens to you.

    Besides that....yeah, get a Glock 19 or 26 and dress so that you can conceal it. As long as you can comfortably carry the pistol, personal safety should always trump fashion in a hostile environment.

    If you don't want to bother with a pistol, get some Fox 5.3 pepper spray. I've carried it on duty for over 11 years, and yes, it most certainly can (and usually does, in my experience) incapacitate someone to the point that they either can't or don't want to fight anymore. Other sprays might not be as effective, but when I've used Fox, it has worked. There might be the rare exception with a mental case, but it sounds like common street thugs are more of a concern for you.

    Or, you might try to find a more peaceful tax shelter.
    Slow is smooth.....smooth is fast.

  12. #56
    Member Array Rebmik's Avatar
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    The only thing that would keep me in Panama, would be a job that paid a boat-load of money. While making a boat-load of $$$, I would move to a safer place and hire an armed guard..

    Don't make that kind of money?? Try the U.S. of A., Maine would welcome you.

    Cheers, Kev

  13. #57
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    I have a friend that retired to Brazil and loves it. I don't think Panama is much more dangerous than Brazil. He is a black belt in martial arts and owned his own self defense school so comparison here is not appropriate. But he has mentioned only one incident where some gang members acosted him and his wife. He laid a couple on the floor and he said now they move to the other side of the street when ever he walks by. Sounds like the guys you are meeting with are just street punks. I can guarantee you that a gang that approaches you in any American city is going to leave you bloody or dead on the first meeting. Throwing a punch and running away is a bully in training and not a gang member. Look at how you dress and carry yourself. You may be in a tropical country but you don't have to look like or dress like a panzee. I am not trying to insult you in any way. I am just trying to get a point accross. I am from Cuba and my wife is from Puerto Rico. By the most part when we visit PR we are left alone by the locals. Tourists are made out from a mile away. The locals dress in jeans and shirts even in the hottest weather. They wear shorts cut modern fashion. I have seen tourists dressed in those white linen light shorts and shirts (that look like pajamas) with the expensive leather flip flops. They stand out like a sore thumb and are easy targets. It is difficult to conceal anything in those clothes. I generally wear bermuda shorts with a collar shirt or t-shirt and leather sandals that are webbed front and strapped back for support with a rubber sole for traction. I don't carry a gun in PR because my carry permit from FL is not valid there. But I carry myself like my baby Glock is in my short pocket. I usually put my wallet in my front right pocket so it looks like I have something that could be a gun there. Only once I was approached in PR by three young punks. One asked if I could give him some money. I stepped right up to his face and reached into my pocket and grabbed my wallet. I told him I had no money for him. He looked down at my hand in my pocket and walked away into the sunset. I stood there staring at him till they walked away from me. My wife asked me what I would have done if they had not taken my bluff and I said, "Give him the wallet I had in my hand of course". BTW I am a little guy 5'5", 160 lbs. They could have easily kicked my ass but not till I hurt one of them. What I am trying to say is that you need to carry yourself assertively and wear comfortable clothes that say "I am ready to kick your ass if you give me a reason." Flip flops or other light sandals are not good for maneuvering if you have to defend yourself. They have little traction and support for the ankle if you need to turn fast. The best defense is to be aware of your surroundings, confidence, trained, on yellow alert at all times and ready to kick ass when necessary. Study the areas you frequent. Always have a defensive and exit strategy from different places. Keep or maneuver your oponent into a kill zone. Learn where you can develop kill zones in the areas that you frequent and how to avoid putting yourself in someone else's kill zone. There are several resort areas in Panama that have been built in the last few years by American contractors. By the most part they are secluded and in very safe areas with little violence if any. You may want to look into them. There is a site for American ex-patriots that is good to look at for retirement options. Living Overseas - International Real Estate, Overseas Jobs - Expatriate Resources - Overseas Retirement

    I recommend a baby Glock also but be careful. No matter what your legal status there you will always be considered a Gringo. Take it from a hispanic, you may be Brit but in their eyes you are still a Gringo so keep that in mind. The best advice you got here is from Miggy. Nothing beats a group of locals that are powerful and can keep you out of trouble if you need to take defensive action. Also the word will get around and the punks will not want to mess with the guy that rubs elbows with the police chief and the magistrate.
    "Government is not reason and it is not eloquence. It is force! Like fire it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action."

    George Washington

  14. #58
    VIP Member Array stormbringerr's Avatar
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    ever think of relocating try Belize, or Tasmania.i cant really think of any tax reasons to have to live in one certain country.no matter what country that could be.
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  15. #59
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    layer your security

    You need to move to a different neighborhood along with acquiring a firearm. Train a lot with it and know the local laws so don't wind up in a Panamanian jail/prison.
    What color is the sky in your world?

  16. #60
    Member Array libertarian5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stormbringerr View Post
    ever think of relocating try Belize, or Tasmania.i cant really think of any tax reasons to have to live in one certain country.no matter what country that could be.
    I've spent considerable time in Panama and have actually lived in Belize. IMO, Panama is actually much more "tranquilo" than Belize. Either place, self-confidence is the best defense. You need to get straight into the face of anyone who bothers you. They will usually back off.

    If you look like a victim and act like a victim you will become a victim.
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    to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to and including my life." Author unknown

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