Defensive Carry banner

Moved to Panama. "Robbed" twice. Need gun.

24K views 65 replies 49 participants last post by  sioux565 
#1 ·
Moved to Panama from the UK a couple of months ago. Have been attemptedly robbed by the same gang, twice now.

First time I just told them to screw off and they did.

Second time, I thought one of them had a taser or something of that nature, turns out it was his mobile phone held like it was a gun/etc.

After the second time, I walked away to get food. And the only way back to my apartment is over the same bridge. So I bought a big metal hammer from the 24 hour store, and walked back.

They weren't there.

Anyhow, I've got an order on a German Shepherd, and a lot of Panamanians are afraid of big dogs. But until that grows up, I need a gun.

Police here suck, and are more likely to side with the gang. The police are just 20 years olds etc, with uzis, on dirtbikes. And they are corrupt like you wouldn't believe, just walk up and demanded a penalty fine from me the other day for not carrying my passport. I put him on the phone to my lawyer and he promptly dropped the idea.

Anyway, back to my point. I always wear light clothes here, trousers and a t-shirt at most. So I need a relatively small, kinda thin gun so I can carry it without it being seen. But also, I don't wanna take out a pea shooter, escalate the situation and then have them take out god knows what.

Any idea's?
 
See less See more
#33 ·
Small thin gun to me equals Commander sized 1911. Of course, I'm one of those people for whom the answer to the question "What gun should I..." always involves "1911" in some way.

If you are in a position where you don't want to deal with the "waiting period" on a dog - how about adopting an already grown GSD or other such large dog? I'm assuming Panama has unwanted/abandoned animals much like the US. Maybe the local US military base has some guard dogs that are ready for retirement - already well trained and they understand English.


One question;

Do they call Panama hats, Panama hats there - or do they just call them hats?

Good luck,
Joe
 
#34 ·
Interesting.:wave:

Overview of Living in Panama - Crime and Safety

-----
"Panama has private firearm ownership. As a resident or citizen you can get one too. If you can purchase the gun you can carry it concealed on your person in your car etc. This is a typical scenario in several countries. In the USA a handgun to me was like Karl Malden and the American Express Card - never leave home without it, and while home rest assured one was always very close by. In Panama it is nice to not have to carry a gun - not needed. If you want a gun you can readily have one in Panama. Remember Panama is under Roman Law. If you shoot or kill a person even a home intruder or a person in a traffic accident you can be incarcerated by the police during which they investigate the death. I am told there is a usual 7 day limit on this. There is also the crime of passion exception to murder. If you came to find your spouse engaging in sex with another and you killed them both it would be a walk under crime of passion but you may have to go to jail for a few days while the investigation took place. Remember you are not in Kansas anymore. Having an unregistered gun will result in a trip to the jail. Panama is not a full auto jurisdiction (machine guns)- no private ownership of full autos. I believe things like semi-auto AR-15's are available. I understand that there are lots of full auto AK's floating around due to Colombians smuggling them in but that too can mean big trouble with the police - ill advised and unnecessary. Silencers, and things like any other weapon, are not available for private ownership."

---------
 
#35 ·
Here is something to think about before shooting someone in a Central American country. It’s not Panama but its right next door and their legal system is similar

AM Costa Rica “Crouse case has some instructive elements “
“Roger Crouse, a Canadian, sits in a nondescript prison at the end of a long gravel road in Liberia. Several facts are certain:
• He’s is a pleasant person, well liked in his community of Playas del Coco.
• He killed a man in what mostly likely is self-defense.
• He made some fundamental errors, the telling of which will be instructive to expats here.
• His trial on a murder charge begins Aug. 6.
• Crouse is probably going to prison for 12 to 16 years even though any reasonable person would agree he does not deserve to do so. “Welcome to A.M. Costa Rica

“Judges set Roger Crouse free”
“Roger Crouse, the Canadian bar owner who languished in prison for more than a year, went free Tuesday when judges found he was not guilty of murder.”
Welcome to A.M. Costa Rica
 
#36 ·
To be clear, the fact that you are being somewhat vague and evasive about your reason for being in such a potentially dangerous situation does not endear you to certain members of this forum. No one here likes the idea of giving advice on guns to someone who seems a bit less of upstanding. It just rubs people here the wrong way. I am not making any assumptions about you, but I want you to understand the reason that members here are asking somewhat pointed questions.


That said, this is what i suggest:

1) Immediate protection. A knife, small enough to conceal but large enough to be effective and more importantly, intimidating if the gangs there are as fickle as you have said.

2)Get the paperwork started on a pistol now. Really you cant go wrong with any of the Glocks except the full sized ones if you're looking for a CC pistol. Which Glock is better than another is mostly a matter of personal preference when you get down to it. They are lightweight, hard to rust, easy recoil depending on what model you get, and they're just plain reliable as hell.

3) WHAT IS YOUR BUDGET?
Depending on how much spare cash you have around, I would further recommend a few measures such as a dog, a back up pistol (BUG), possibly pepper spray as a deterrent to avoid having to deal with the police in situations where a bullet may not be warranted in their eyes.
 
#37 ·
Thanks for the advice, but what leads you to believe I am not upstanding. Please quote one of my posts. I didn't walk out my condo with the intention of violently robbing someone, these little twats did.

You said I had been vague, and evasive... quite the opposite I would of thought, I've explained exactly what happened, and am thus asking advice on different weapons available to protect myself, and my dog while it is young.
 
#38 ·
Very well. I do not believe it was your intention, its just how you came across.

What does your home security situation look like? Solid deadbolts on every door, including possibly the bedroom? Locks on every window? Alarm system? In lieu of a shotgun or pistol, do you have a baseball bat, machete, or similar means of defense?
Just some things to think about...

If those thugs know the area you live in, they will soon know exactly where you sleep at night, if they do not already. Never underestimate a young man trying to prove himself to his friends. They will be reckless and unpredictable. Even if they have only been moderately threatening thus far, you might find one trying to crawl through your bedroom window with a knife one day, on a dare. Be ready for it.

Does the common gang member have access to firearms? If so a lite Bullet proof vest (IIA or better) might not be amiss for situations when you know you will have to cross their paths in less than ideal circumstances.
That may be a rather extreme measure, but to be honest you seem to be in rather extreme circumstances to me.

It all depends on your cash flow and your threat level really..
 
#39 ·
Currently I'm renting a condo, has extremely tight security. Won't let anyone in unless they recognise them. And they have about 7 security guards, first of all they'd need to get past the gate (only entrance)... Then they'd need to be buzzed into my building.

Basically... nothing to worry about there.

I'm gonna go get a Baton tomorrow, and will take a look at the glocks while I'm there.
 
#40 ·
Get an asp or other expandable baton. Don't get the "lighter" batton as they bend when you hit people with them. Buy some shorts with belt loops and get a holster if you go the gun route. Or if you wear the elastic banded shorts look at the smart carry system.
 
#42 ·
When you start looking at different guns, make sure you pick one that you can find ammo, spare mags, holsters, etc. for. I have no idea what the gun market is in Panama or what caliber restrictions they may have (i.e. Mexico and their military caliber restrictions) but it'd be a waste of time to buy something in a caliber that's not readily available.

I personally prefer .45acp but I would imagine 9mm ammo might be easier to find in greater quantities - and at a more reasonable price. By all means, call your lawyer and get his advice on self defense laws there.
Jack
 
#43 ·
Seems to me this gang is testing your reactions. Get some pepper spray and watch your back. If you carry a firearm you must be ready to use it or they may take it away from you. Don't overlook the fact
that they all probably carry at least a knife. Keep us informed on how you are doing. Good luck !
 
#45 ·
Panama is pretty liberal about private gun ownership. I believe only full-auto requires a special permit. Civilians are even lawfully allowed to have sawed off shotguns. I would carry a combat-class handgun (most likely a Glock for ease of parts and availability) with a couple hi-cap mags on my person at all times. In the car I would get the DeSantis "Kingston" holster that hooks on the front of the drivers seat for fast access in a carjacking situation. I would also keep a few 30 round mags in the car as well as the sawed-off with some 3" Mag #1 Buck. Panama is beautiful but it is also pretty crazy so stay sharp.
 
#50 ·
Subdues? No. Pepper spray cannot subdue anyone to my knowledge.
Distract may be a better word. You average punk will lose interest in mugging you when his face "catches fire". A really determined person can overcome the pain relatively easily tho.. but yes, i would say pepper spray would be a good thing to have until your pistol arrives. It would probably also draw less attention than a baton, but it would not be as quite as effective IMO.
 
#53 ·
Be gregarious. Get to know your local mid to high level police officer & white shirt. Also get chummy with military (Captain and above) as well as judges. Wine them and dine them. If you happen to have access to some places or events they don't, take them for a day of fun. If they have secretaries, treat the like royalty, give them small gifts, charm the undies out of them.

Why? In case you get in trouble, you will have a network of people that will vouch and will defend you better than any lawyer... and it is cheaper in the long run.
 
#55 ·
This is the best advice on this thread so far. In a corrupt society, being friends with the movers and shakers matters more than any legal technicality regarding defensive scenarios. It ain't what's written in the law that matters....it's the application of said law by the people in charge of such things that will determine what happens to you.

Besides that....yeah, get a Glock 19 or 26 and dress so that you can conceal it. As long as you can comfortably carry the pistol, personal safety should always trump fashion in a hostile environment.

If you don't want to bother with a pistol, get some Fox 5.3 pepper spray. I've carried it on duty for over 11 years, and yes, it most certainly can (and usually does, in my experience) incapacitate someone to the point that they either can't or don't want to fight anymore. Other sprays might not be as effective, but when I've used Fox, it has worked. There might be the rare exception with a mental case, but it sounds like common street thugs are more of a concern for you.

Or, you might try to find a more peaceful tax shelter. :smile:
 
#56 ·
The only thing that would keep me in Panama, would be a job that paid a boat-load of money. While making a boat-load of $$$, I would move to a safer place and hire an armed guard..

Don't make that kind of money?? Try the U.S. of A., Maine would welcome you.

Cheers, Kev
 
#57 ·
I have a friend that retired to Brazil and loves it. I don't think Panama is much more dangerous than Brazil. He is a black belt in martial arts and owned his own self defense school so comparison here is not appropriate. But he has mentioned only one incident where some gang members acosted him and his wife. He laid a couple on the floor and he said now they move to the other side of the street when ever he walks by. Sounds like the guys you are meeting with are just street punks. I can guarantee you that a gang that approaches you in any American city is going to leave you bloody or dead on the first meeting. Throwing a punch and running away is a bully in training and not a gang member. Look at how you dress and carry yourself. You may be in a tropical country but you don't have to look like or dress like a panzee. I am not trying to insult you in any way. I am just trying to get a point accross. I am from Cuba and my wife is from Puerto Rico. By the most part when we visit PR we are left alone by the locals. Tourists are made out from a mile away. The locals dress in jeans and shirts even in the hottest weather. They wear shorts cut modern fashion. I have seen tourists dressed in those white linen light shorts and shirts (that look like pajamas) with the expensive leather flip flops. They stand out like a sore thumb and are easy targets. It is difficult to conceal anything in those clothes. I generally wear bermuda shorts with a collar shirt or t-shirt and leather sandals that are webbed front and strapped back for support with a rubber sole for traction. I don't carry a gun in PR because my carry permit from FL is not valid there. But I carry myself like my baby Glock is in my short pocket. I usually put my wallet in my front right pocket so it looks like I have something that could be a gun there. Only once I was approached in PR by three young punks. One asked if I could give him some money. I stepped right up to his face and reached into my pocket and grabbed my wallet. I told him I had no money for him. He looked down at my hand in my pocket and walked away into the sunset. I stood there staring at him till they walked away from me. My wife asked me what I would have done if they had not taken my bluff and I said, "Give him the wallet I had in my hand of course". BTW I am a little guy 5'5", 160 lbs. They could have easily kicked my ass but not till I hurt one of them. What I am trying to say is that you need to carry yourself assertively and wear comfortable clothes that say "I am ready to kick your ass if you give me a reason." Flip flops or other light sandals are not good for maneuvering if you have to defend yourself. They have little traction and support for the ankle if you need to turn fast. The best defense is to be aware of your surroundings, confidence, trained, on yellow alert at all times and ready to kick ass when necessary. Study the areas you frequent. Always have a defensive and exit strategy from different places. Keep or maneuver your oponent into a kill zone. Learn where you can develop kill zones in the areas that you frequent and how to avoid putting yourself in someone else's kill zone. There are several resort areas in Panama that have been built in the last few years by American contractors. By the most part they are secluded and in very safe areas with little violence if any. You may want to look into them. There is a site for American ex-patriots that is good to look at for retirement options. Living Overseas - International Real Estate, Overseas Jobs - Expatriate Resources - Overseas Retirement

I recommend a baby Glock also but be careful. No matter what your legal status there you will always be considered a ******. Take it from a hispanic, you may be Brit but in their eyes you are still a ****** so keep that in mind. The best advice you got here is from Miggy. Nothing beats a group of locals that are powerful and can keep you out of trouble if you need to take defensive action. Also the word will get around and the punks will not want to mess with the guy that rubs elbows with the police chief and the magistrate.
 
#58 ·
ever think of relocating try Belize, or Tasmania.i cant really think of any tax reasons to have to live in one certain country.no matter what country that could be.:22a:
 
#60 ·
I've spent considerable time in Panama and have actually lived in Belize. IMO, Panama is actually much more "tranquilo" than Belize. Either place, self-confidence is the best defense. You need to get straight into the face of anyone who bothers you. They will usually back off.

If you look like a victim and act like a victim you will become a victim.
 
#61 ·
Gotta love Central America

Tons of great advice in previous posts, don't want to be repetitive (so I'll try not to be). I've spent most of the last 10 years living/working in some of the more wretched Central American and Mexican slums (gotta love the wonderful places the security industry takes you...currently in the middle east but will back to your neck of the woods before too long I hope) and have not yet had to get into a gunfight with one of the gangs around my living area (though they do seem to enjoy them, perhaps it's the lack of fear of consequence due to the netoriously poor police standards throughout the region). I have no problem pulling the trigger if absolutely neccesary, but you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned that the police usually side with the gangs (read: locals). Also, the street gangs (even the less "dangerous" ones) almost always vastly outnumber you and your family and they will most likely come to visit (or from the sounds of it, just wait at that bridge that is the only way back to your house) if you shoot one or more of them. Short story is if you plan to live there (and stay alive/out of jail) you may want to look at either moving to a more secure area (also more expensive) or making "friends" with both the police and the locals and keep your CCW concealed until there is no other option to save your life or that of your family...and then you better have a plan ready to go on how you are going to get out of there before the revenge party comes. Should probably also make friends/aquaintances with the UK consulate should the situation require that you exit rapidly. All the standard blend in, low profile, don't carry anthing you can't afford to lose stuff obviously applies, but you're British not Panamanian so you have to be realistic about how well you'll blend and the fact that everyone around there knows who you are (or at the minimum that you're not from there) and where you live. Avoidance in this situation could very likely be the key survival in your situation so you may want to start sharpening those counter-surveillance skills, watch for people taking undue/excesive interest in you, and aviod them long before you get to the point where they can attack you. It may mean taking an hour or so longer to get home or go to the market, but all things considered that is a small price to pay for your safety.

While this isn't a very CCW intensive post on my part I feel that your situation will not be easily handled with only a weapon and that your situation will rapidly deteriorate if you try to solve it with a weapon. Again, if it's a question of survival there is no question. Just make sure that you are doing everything possible to avoid that situation. Don't get me wrong, it really flames me when I have to let some little punks get one over on me (or at least think they have when they get my fake wallet that has a small amount of currency, just enough to be believable, and scrap receipts and such with no personal identification) but I can always take that feeling out on the heavy bag later once the danger has passed. Best of luck to you, hope some of this is useful to you.
 
#62 ·
Hello,

You being foreigner, gonna have a hard time getting your gun permit in here in Panama; I am local and had to do: drug test, psyco test, shooting school, thisto renew my permit[which is concealed carry]. I waited for my first permit almost 6 months and this renewal is taking close to 4 now.

I have NO idea where you live that you have to cross a bridge, no such place comes to mind here in the city and walking, even less.

To the rest talking about a country that maybe you know about because of the news, shut up, the US is as corrupted as any other country in the world or worst.

At least we welcome every sucker running away from the high cost of living in their respective countries even though your countries put so much red tape for us to even go visit less to own a gun, when I was married to a US citizen and being a legal US resident, I was not allowed to own a gun, wasn't even allowed to take self defense or CQB classes.

Let's keep the badmouthing of others home country to a minimum and respect above all.
 
#63 ·
why did you choose a 4 year old thread to make your first post?

Ford the record, when you married a US citizen and gained legal status here, you because protected under our Constitution.. which means you should have been allowed to own a firearm.

and panama and most of central america is FAR FAR worse than most locations in the US.. ive been to Chicago, New York, lived in Detroit, Saginaw, and Flint (the top 3 most dangerous cities). Nothing compares to the gang run cities of Central America..
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top